'53 Hornet Wiring Dilema

J Lombard
J Lombard Member
in HUDSON
Hello All:

Back from the doctors putting this old body back together now it's time for me to try & put my old '53 Hornet back together & running.

Problem: engine will not turn over with key but will turn over with manual switch on the starter solenoid.

What I've done:

1. New 6v battery
2. Dual strap Pos. ground straps per Doug Wildrik i.e. polished frame & engine mount connection points.
3. Polished sheet metal mounting points & mounted new starter solenoid
4. Polished sheet metal mounting points & mounted generator regulator.
5. Mounted horn relay.
6. Polished metal mounting points & mounted "under dash" circuit breaker.
7. Installed Lance Walker rehabbed ignition switch.
8. Installed neutral safety switch & adjusted per "Hudson Mechanical Procedure Manual Supplement "53-"54 Models".
9. Installed rehabbed starter.
10. Installed ignition coil (came with car).
11. Installed distributor Autlite p/n iat-4009b-4g (came with car).
12. Installed generator Autolite p/n ggw-6001k (came with car).

All of the above are wired per the "Hudson Mechanical Procedure  Manual Supplement '53-'54 Models" with regard to wire size & color.

The only thing I'm not confident in is the wiring of the neutral safety switch. The wiring diagram does not indicate which wire goes to which post i.e. wire from ignition switch & wire to ST post on solenoid.

Nothing else is wired on the car.

So I turn the key & nothing happens. I've gone over everything 2 & 3 times to no evail.

Anything I missed?????  HELP!!!!!

regards

J Lombard

Comments

  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Sell it.  
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    No, just kidding!

    Let me just double check:  Does it have a Hydramatic?  
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Russ Yes it is a Hydramatic.

    All additional items that are wired

    13. Stop Light switch
    14. Horns

    J Lombard
  • Glowplug
    Glowplug Expert Adviser
    edited August 2015

    The Hudson Transmission neutral safety switch is
    mechanically adjusted to only allow voltage to flow when the transmission
    selector is in N (eutral).  If this is
    properly adjusted there will be continuity (Short circuit) between the input
    from the Ignition switch (IGN post on switch) through the neutral safety switch
    to the output post and on to the switched voltage input of the starter
    solenoid.  This wire is #14 on the Hudson
    wiring diagram.   You need a voltage
    testing device (meter/test light) to quickly and thoroughly test for potential
    problems. To test for the proper mechanical adjustment of the neutral safety switch,
    place the transmission selector to N. 
    Then turn the ignition switch to ON… Have and assistant move the switch to the START position.   At the input AND the output terminal of the
    neutral safety switch there should be voltage. 
    There should also be voltage at the switching input terminal of the
    starter solenoid. In a properly operating scenario, the starter motor should turn and the engine will start. Now test or proper no voltage conditions. Turn off the ignition switch.  NO voltage should be
    present at any of the terminals.   Block
    your cars wheels and set your parking brake. 
    Now retest with the transmission selector in all positions EXCEPT
    neutral.  There should be NO voltage
    present EXCEPT at the input terminal of the neutral switch.  Turn off the ignition switch.  If these tests produce the noted results then
    move on to the starter solenoid.   With
    your voltage test lead connected to the output side of the solenoid (Starter
    side) jump voltage to the input switching terminal of the solenoid. Voltage
    should now be present at the output side of the terminal and the starter should
    turn.  STOP.  

    Is there voltage on the output of the solenoid, is the
    starter turning?

    ·        
    No, isolate
    the solenoid by removing the starter cable. 
    Test the solenoid again. Shorting the switch terminal to input voltage
    should show the same voltage at the output of a good solenoid.     

    ·        
    If the solenoid tests well test the connection
    to the starter.  When the starter
    solenoid is engaged is there voltage at the input of the starter? 

    o  
     YES - Your starter is defective OR the
    starter is isolated from GROUND and will not turn because of this.

    ·        
    If there is voltage at the starter input, check
    for proper grounding of the starter.  If
    there is paint or any other surface contaminants at the mating surfaces between
    starter and engine mounting plate the starter may not spin due to lost
    GROUNDING.   

     

    Finally,
    the above assumes that there wires from and to the various connections notes
    are in good repair and are properly connected.  



    Good Luck

  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Oldfarmer:
    Thanks so much for your input. the following are the results of my tests.

    TEST:
    Mechanical adjustment of the neutral safety switch circuit #14

    1.Neutral safety switch continuity test
    result shifter in N = had continuity
              shifter in 4/3/lo/R = no continuity (open)

    2. Ign. Sw. "ON"/shifter in N
    results input term. of neutral switch = 6.45v
                output term. of neutral switch = 6.45v
                ST term of solenoid = 6.45v

    3. Ign. Sw. "OFF"/shifter in N
    results input term of neutral switch =6.45v
                output term. of neutral switch = 6.45v
                ST term. of solenoid = 6.45v

    4. Ign. Sw. "ON"/shifter in 4/3/lo/R
    results input term. of neutral switch = 0v
                output term. of neutral switch = 6.46v
                ST term. of solenoid = 6.46v

    5. Ign. Sw. "OFF"/shifter in 4/3/lo/R
     results input term. of neutral switch = 0v
                 output term. of neutral switch = 6.45v
                 ST term of solenoid = 6.46v

    because these were not the results you expected I did not continue to the testing of the starter solenoid.

    Your prognosis????

    regards

    J
  • Glowplug
    Glowplug Expert Adviser
    After reviewing your readings, I believe you have the wires at the Neutral Safety Switch reversed. Your readings indicate that the output 6 volts from the start terminal of the ignition switch is connected to the output terminal of the neutral safety switch.   See the attached diagram
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Oldfarmer:

    I don't see any markings on the safety switch connections so I just switch the connection as you suggested & the results were exactly the same as before with regard to the voltage at each connection. I do notice a difference in your wiring diagram (real pretty by the way) & the diagram in the manual. You show the hot lead from the horn relay going to one side of the circuit breaker & the hot lead to the ignition switch connected to the opposite side of the circuit breaker. My manual shows both leads connected to the "B" side of the circuit breaker.

    regards

    J
  • Glowplug
    Glowplug Expert Adviser
    edited August 2015
    Jay I reviewed the other posts. If the solenoid is indeed an isolated base type it is incorrect and you need to find a grounded base type to fix the problem. As I said call if needed.

    Ken
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Anyone:

    Does anyone with the correct starter solenoid have the part no. & source? If I can get the correct solenoid this might help clear up the problem & I can get on to actually starting this old girl.

    regards

    J
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    just for info:
    I took the solenoid completely out & checked for continuity. Power side to st post I have continuity, st post to the mounting bracket (ground) I have no continuity. So my conclusion is when installed & hooked up I will have power to the st terminal because of the continuity but it will not operate because there is no continuity to ground. Thus when I jump from the st terminal to either the pos. post (ground) or the mounting bracket (ground) the solenoid operates. Sound logical ???? If so I need to find the correct ground based solenoid.


    J
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Everyone I got my ignition switch in the mail today (thanks Lance). I had the most gut wrenching experience this morning ... I had to put my most loyal companion of 14 years my border collie, Pepper, to sleep. I don't feel much like tinkering on the old Hudson right now but I will put the switch in maybe tomorrow & let every one know how she works.

    good day for now

    J Lombard

  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    J Lombard
    Sorry to hear about Pepper. I had to put my sons dog to sleep a couple years ago. I know the feeling.
    Lee O'Dell
  • J Lombard
    J Lombard Member
    Time to move on
    Thank you everyone for your kind words about Pepper & sharing your stories about your dogs.

    On a lighter note
    I received the ignition switch & have installed the new starter solenoid & am happy to report the engine now turns over with the key.

    Solution to this dilemma was the installation of a "GROUND BASED STARTER SOLENOID".

    I will close this thread now & move on to actually STARTING the engine. I want to thank:

    Eddie, Russ, Per, Alex, Doug & Ken for all your help.

    best regards to all

    J Lombard

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