7X engine dates and colors

dougson
dougson Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Could a 7X engine (assembly) still be ordered in '54 from the factory, or would someone have to locate '52-53 examples and build them up "at home". Were all 7X engines painted gold even if installed in a '54?

Comments

  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    You should take a look at Ken Cates' website (Google: Stepdown Restoration). JC Whitney sold crate 7X motors at least until the late 50's, maybe later(?). 7X motors were a dealer-installed item and some can even still be found, although quite rare these days. Most of us, yours truly included, are building our 7X's by "converting" a stock 308, which is probably the best way to go. True 7X's or even true-converted 7X's are not street-worthy and the smart thing to do is convert a stocker with a milder cam.
  • 53jetman
    53jetman Senior Contributor
    The engines that JC Whitney was selling up thru the late 1960's were left over AMC production engines - not 7X engines. There was no such thing as a complete factory assembled 7X at any time. The 7X package consisted of a factory prepared block, valves, cam, crank, rods, bearings & pistons. They were usually shipped in the trunk of the car they were ordered for and it was up to the dealer's service department to remove the production engine from the chassis and to install the 7X engine with various parts off of the production engine to complete the installation. 7X engine packages could be ordered up and into the 1955 model year for application to the Hudson step-down chassis -not recommended for the hash chassis



    Jerry

    53jetman
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    53jetman wrote:
    The engines that JC Whitney was selling up thru the late 1960's were left over AMC production engines - not 7X engines. There was no such thing as a complete factory assembled 7X at any time. The 7X package consisted of a factory prepared block, valves, cam, crank, rods, bearings & pistons. They were usually shipped in the trunk of the car they were ordered for and it was up to the dealer's service department to remove the production engine from the chassis and to install the 7X engine with various parts off of the production engine to complete the installation. 7X engine packages could be ordered up and into the 1955 model year for application to the Hudson step-down chassis -not recommended for the hash chassis



    Jerry

    53jetman



    That's right! Sorry, forgot about that. At least I got the dealer part right. :( Spoke up too soon.
  • dougson
    dougson Senior Contributor
    53jetman wrote:
    The engines that JC Whitney was selling up thru the late 1960's were left over AMC production engines - not 7X engines. There was no such thing as a complete factory assembled 7X at any time. The 7X package consisted of a factory prepared block, valves, cam, crank, rods, bearings & pistons. They were usually shipped in the trunk of the car they were ordered for and it was up to the dealer's service department to remove the production engine from the chassis and to install the 7X engine with various parts off of the production engine to complete the installation. 7X engine packages could be ordered up and into the 1955 model year for application to the Hudson step-down chassis -not recommended for the hash chassis



    Jerry

    53jetman



    Good info jetman, thanks. I'm building a street 7X using a '56 block as the base (has valve reliefs and 1/2' head studs). It's going into my '54 Hornet coupe. I'm even hoping I can reuse the hydraulic cam and lifters. I was going to paint it gold, but that might not be correct for '54.
  • 7XPacemaker
    7XPacemaker Senior Contributor
    RL Chilton wrote:
    You should take a look at Ken Cates' website (Google: Stepdown Restoration). JC Whitney sold crate 7X motors at least until the late 50's, maybe later(?). 7X motors were a dealer-installed item and some can even still be found, although quite rare these days. Most of us, yours truly included, are building our 7X's by "converting" a stock 308, which is probably the best way to go. True 7X's or even true-converted 7X's are not street-worthy and the smart thing to do is convert a stocker with a milder cam.



    Why aren't they "Street Worthy"?
  • 53jetman
    53jetman Senior Contributor
    dougson wrote:
    Good info jetman, thanks. I'm building a street 7X using a '56 block as the base (has valve reliefs and 1/2' head studs). It's going into my '54 Hornet coupe. I'm even hoping I can reuse the hydraulic cam and lifters. I was going to paint it gold, but that might not be correct for '54.



    Dougson - I believe you can use the hydraulic lifters & cam for a mild "street 7X" You're right, the color for a '54 engine would have been red - but, it's your car, decorate it as you see fit.



    Jerry

    53jetman
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    7X Pacemaker-



    Can't tell you from personal experience (wish I could), but many prominent older Hudnuts have told me more than once that 7X's chomp up timing chains in about 500 miles. This may not be a factor with the new chains and gears like Randy and Russ sell. Other thing was, 7X's didn't idle worth a damn because they were so lopey due to the racing cams (reason I'm going with a slightly milder cam). Same thing applies with V-8's: if you design and engineer the engine to run flat out and run well, street-driving and idling don't go hand in hand with the petal to the metal, so to speak.



    My story is I'm building a car for the street, not the strip or racetrack and I just want a little more power than stock, along with the sound of the dual exhaust, (not counting the extra conversation piece).



    51HornetA here on the forum is a veritable expert on 7X's and I have obtained many a clue from him, as his experience runs real deep.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    As the old saying goes it all depends. You can get a full race version of a 7X idling nicely no probs. It will be lobey depending on the cam you use. If you were running Marshall Teagues setup on the street you might not be happy he loosened up those engines to take the heat of long races and yes he pounded the crap out of them. 500 miles and a tear down was not uncommon. Now some people who run 7X engines think they are running that setup well they ain't plain and simple. 7X engine was base for the race engine. I have a 7X factory short block on my stand right now it does not have punch marks around each cylinder like Teague did to stop gasket blow outs. It was not loosened up. It had the chain chewing 309742 cam and knurled pistons. But from the factory that engine was tight. I changed out the cam to the mechanical grind cam from Randy Maas and replaced the pistons. Knurled pistons that is is old tech.



    So yes you can drive a full 7X on the street but it likes your foot in it which maybe fine for some. I prefer a little more finesse.
  • 7XPacemaker
    7XPacemaker Senior Contributor
    RL Chilton wrote:
    7X Pacemaker-



    Can't tell you from personal experience (wish I could), but many prominent older Hudnuts have told me more than once that 7X's chomp up timing chains in about 500 miles. This may not be a factor with the new chains and gears like Randy and Russ sell. Other thing was, 7X's didn't idle worth a damn because they were so lopey due to the racing cams (reason I'm going with a slightly milder cam). Same thing applies with V-8's: if you design and engineer the engine to run flat out and run well, street-driving and idling don't go hand in hand with the petal to the metal, so to speak.



    My story is I'm building a car for the street, not the strip or racetrack and I just want a little more power than stock, along with the sound of the dual exhaust, (not counting the extra conversation piece).



    51HornetA here on the forum is a veritable expert on 7X's and I have obtained many a clue from him, as his experience runs real deep.



    You saw my 7X running on the street in Manassas, Va. and it's been in my car for 20+ years. Now as far as the cam and timing chain goes- I installed an Iskenderian cam in my engine. It does like to throttle more than idle but it isn't that bad...
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    7XPacemaker wrote:
    You saw my 7X running on the street in Manassas, Va. and it's been in my car for 20+ years. Now as far as the cam and timing chain goes- I installed an Iskenderian cam in my engine. It does like to throttle more than idle but it isn't that bad...



    Well, that's true, I did. Maybe I've had my thoughts altered a little over the last few years. With my current project, I plan on driving it all over the country and reliability is going to out-weigh performance, in my particular case. As 51Hornet pointed out, the 7X racing engines back in the day were really loosened up to run flat out and perform at their best and "converted" 7X's aren't really true 7X's in that sense.



    I'm sure I'm more concerned than I should be as my thought patterns get manipulated more by what I read these days, instead of practical applications.



    This weekend, I pulled my other engine and started getting it ready to go to the machinist, hopefully in the near future (work has gotten tight). Now I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row and all my info right so the changes we make will be correct and I make the best decisions I can.
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