How to time 308 w/o pointer on engine plate??
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I have a K-gap 700R4 transmission adapter plate. To install the adapter, the starter is relocated upwards and the timing pointer pin on the factory engine plate gets cut off. Well mine is cut off and I didn't mark the balancer or anything. So is there any way to set timimg without the flywheel pointer? I have it running OK but I have no idea where the base timing is. Any info would be appreciated.
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Comments
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Sorry Dave, but I have to ask, how's performance with the 700R4? That's exactly what I plan for the convertible. Any idea of rpm's at cruising speed?
Got any pics you can send me?0 -
Performance is great. Cruising rpm at 65 MPH is less than 2000 rpm. Shifts are at about 17 into 2nd, 35 into 3rd, and 48 into 4th. I have TCC on a toggle switch that I energize at cruise speed. Works quite well. I have about 1200 miles on the trans so far.0
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You could do the old 'power time' method by filling with the gas that you intend to use then find a clear stretch of hwy where you could advance the timing slightly until it pings then back off a tad.
[Perhaps ypou could get close by bring #1 piston up to TDC, scribe a mark on your damper then fabricate a pointer using a pc of metal bolted to the timing cover to match.
You could also compare marks to a crank assy that was out of the motor if you had one available.0 -
For years I timed mine with a vacuum gauge. I read the method off Ken's old site as was written in one of Bernie Siegfried's letters. It worked great.
Connect the vacuum gauge to full manifold vacuum, and adjust your timing until you achieve the highest possible reading. That is optimum timing at your particular altitude.
We had to amend that method by backing off 1" Hg on the gauge. Maximum vacuum puts alot of initial into the total that the longish curve of a stock distributor doesn't seem to like. By backing off 1" we haven't had a pinging problem. They sure do have the gusto in the low-mid range by that amended method.
Shooting them with a light afterward showed the timing at idle in the 5-7* BTDC range. Max vacuum was usually in the 10-ish range BTDC. When running that much initial, be sure your vacuum advance canister is hooked to a ported source - a stock Hudson carburetor arrangement will be a ported source.
Mark0 -
Dave-
That sounds really good. I was really hoping that with the OD, cruising would be in the 1800 range or less.
Also, how did you adapt the TV cable to the carbs? Does the "adaptor kit" make provisions for this, or did you have to custom fabricate?0 -
RL Chilton wrote:Dave-
That sounds really good. I was really hoping that with the OD, cruising would be in the 1800 range or less.
Also, how did you adapt the TV cable to the carbs? Does the "adaptor kit" make provisions for this, or did you have to custom fabricate?
RL,
I had to make a bracket for the TV cable off the left rear headbolt. I welded a TV cable ball to the Hudson Linkage bellcrank so the cable pulls down when throttle is depressed. I will see if I can get a picture for you today or tomorrow.0 -
`Hudsonator wrote:For years I timed mine with a vacuum gauge. I read the method off Ken's old site as was written in one of Bernie Siegfried's letters. It worked great.
Connect the vacuum gauge to full manifold vacuum, and adjust your timing until you achieve the highest possible reading. That is optimum timing at your particular altitude.
We had to amend that method by backing off 1" Hg on the gauge. Maximum vacuum puts alot of initial into the total that the longish curve of a stock distributor doesn't seem to like. By backing off 1" we haven't had a pinging problem. They sure do have the gusto in the low-mid range by that amended method.
Shooting them with a light afterward showed the timing at idle in the 5-7* BTDC range. Max vacuum was usually in the 10-ish range BTDC. When running that much initial, be sure your vacuum advance canister is hooked to a ported source - a stock Hudson carburetor arrangement will be a ported source.
Mark
Merk,
I'll have to try that method. Is that max vacuum achieved at idle or at 2000 RPM or so?0 -
At Idle.
The vacuum advance line on a stock Hudson carburetor is ported, so you won't get any reading until you crack the throttle open. You'll have to get into your windshield wiper supply line from the intake to get the full manifold vacuum and good gauge reading at idle.
The only problem you may run into is how finicky your distributor is in terms of its mechanical advance. I've noticed they are a bit clunky at low rpms and jump around some. Its a function of slightly loose springs and the pivots being worn in the advance weights.
If you time it by max vacuum in the standard arrangement, ported vacuum advance, and the car seems high in time and somewhat jumpy just off idle; consider going through the same proceedure with the vacuum advance hooked up to full manifold vacuum and attached while you set the timing with a vacuum gauge.
As these distributors wear, we're getting more mechanical advance than was factory standard. By the time we get a good setup for low and mid range operation by a gauge setting, the top end gets off by giving us a smidge too much mechanical advance. By using full manifold vacuum on the advance canister, we can compensate for the higher initial distributor timing by using the 7-10* of the vacuum advance right at idle and allow the distributor itself to have a near zero initial timing.
Its all individual to your car and your circumstances, but the vacuum gauge really helps to understand what's going on. Once you get to using a vacuum gauge in this application, the more you learn about your individual car and can tweak it to suit you - and hopefully suit itself!
Mark0 -
RL Chilton wrote:Dave-
That sounds really good. I was really hoping that with the OD, cruising would be in the 1800 range or less.
Russell, if that 700R4 has a lockup torque converter, I think you'll find 1800 rpm at 65 mph is too low unless there are provisions for a part-throttle converter unlock. My OD equipped Hornet was overgeared with a 3.58 axle ... the current 3.73 is just right, with 2090 rpm at 65. It's a rare hill I can't pull in OD at 65-70 mph.0 -
`Hudsonator wrote:At Idle.
The vacuum advance line on a stock Hudson carburetor is ported, so you won't get any reading until you crack the throttle open. You'll have to get into your windshield wiper supply line from the intake to get the full manifold vacuum and good gauge reading at idle.
The only problem you may run into is how finicky your distributor is in terms of its mechanical advance. I've noticed they are a bit clunky at low rpms and jump around some. Its a function of slightly loose springs and the pivots being worn in the advance weights.
If you time it by max vacuum in the standard arrangement, ported vacuum advance, and the car seems high in time and somewhat jumpy just off idle; consider going through the same proceedure with the vacuum advance hooked up to full manifold vacuum and attached while you set the timing with a vacuum gauge.
As these distributors wear, we're getting more mechanical advance than was factory standard. By the time we get a good setup for low and mid range operation by a gauge setting, the top end gets off by giving us a smidge too much mechanical advance. By using full manifold vacuum on the advance canister, we can compensate for the higher initial distributor timing by using the 7-10* of the vacuum advance right at idle and allow the distributor itself to have a near zero initial timing.
Its all individual to your car and your circumstances, but the vacuum gauge really helps to understand what's going on. Once you get to using a vacuum gauge in this application, the more you learn about your individual car and can tweak it to suit you - and hopefully suit itself!
Mark
Thanks Mark, I'll do that.0 -
RL Chilton wrote:Sorry Dave, but I have to ask, how's performance with the 700R4? That's exactly what I plan for the convertible. Any idea of rpm's at cruising speed?
Got any pics you can send me?
Russel,
Here is a pic of the TV cable location:0 -
Thanks, Dave. Can you e-mail me a copy of that as well, when you get a chance? I'm not there yet, I'm sure I'll have more questions for you in the near future, if you don't mind.0
This discussion has been closed.
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