No Spark -- suggestions?

Unknown
Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I have just purchased a 1947 6 cyl. I put in a new battery, points, condenser and rotor. There is no spark to the plug. The engine is turning over freely.



The coil is next in line. I don't see any other kind of coil or ignition relay. I may be missing something, but I don't see anything in the wiring diagram.



So, I will replace the cap and the coil next (NAPA is trying to find a coil -- don't know where else to get one).



Question: is there anything else I should look at and/or be ready to replace? Any tricks or obvious things I am overlooking?



Thanks for any help.

Comments

  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    Is there any curent to the coil? Good Luck, Lee
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Lee O'Dell wrote:
    Is there any curent to the coil? Good Luck, Lee

    Yep, need to check current to the coil, if you have current to the coil and still no spark. Re-check the point gap.

    Sometimes the points can get stuck - just went thru that on my dump truck...power to the ignition switch and coil, nothing at the plugs. I turned the points in and out a 1/2 turn then reset - fired right up!

    I've also had condensors that where bad from the get-go, and it doens't hurt to try another one as it's always good to carry spares.

    The good thing about these old cars Spark, Air, Fuel and they should fire up - no reading computer codes and trying to figure out what fuse, or 1 of 100 relays or sensors is bad!
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    Dan mentioning sometimes a new condenser can be bad reminded me of a time I had the same problem and it turned out that the new points were bad. Probably one in a million of that ever happening again.



    If no current to the coil then just trace the wire back to where there is current and you have found the source of the problem.



    Lee
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Lee O'Dell wrote:
    Dan mentioning sometimes a new condenser can be bad reminded me of a time I had the same problem and it turned out that the new points were bad. Probably one in a million of that ever happening again.



    If no current to the coil then just trace the wire back to where there is current and you have found the source of the problem.



    Lee



    Lee-



    I think your figures are way too high on having bad points. Our points these days (at least all the ones I can find) are all Chinese made and of really poor quality. They are no comparison to the points of "days gone by", along with other parts like condensers and rotors. I've been through several sets of bad points just in the last few years.
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    Russell,



    I believe you are right. I was remembering back to 1979, by gone days, when I installed brand new points that were bad. No visible sign of what was wrong with them. No amount of cleaning would make them work.



    I had the same poor quality problem with Chinese brake parts, a few years ago, when I was doing brakes for a living. I had to true all the allowable metal off the brake drum to make it round. Never used any Chinese brake parts after that.



    It's unforntunate the automotive market is flooded with poor quality Chinese parts. But, when you have enough people that will only buy the least expensive, thats what we end up with.



    The old say "You get what you pay for".



    Lee
  • Uncle Josh
    Uncle Josh Senior Contributor
    If you have a local tractor supply place, the coils are less than half the cost of NAPA.



    Coils seldom go bad. Run a hot wire from the coil and hold it on the battery. Then run the coil wire into a grounded spark plug. Ground the other side of the coil and you're down to basics. The coil will throw a spark when you touch the battery and break the circuit or it's bad.
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    Make sure the distributor drive is turning too!!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Thanks to all. You've pretty much confirmed what I thought and also offered some good tips I hadn't thought of.



    When these things happen you start wondering if you're missing something, but slow and steady should get'er done.



    Appreciate it.
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    I like to do the easy and simple things first.



    Therefore, in this case, I would hotwire the engine first. Take a jumper wire from the battery cable that connects to the starter, and connect the other end to the coil. Connect it to the small diameter wire on the coil that does NOT go to the distributor.



    If that does not make spark at the plugs, pop the distributor cap off and see if the rotor is turning as you crank the engine.



    If the rotor turns, but still no spark, then its time to start replacing parts (condenser, points, cap and rotor).



    Replace the coil last, as these are much less prone to failure than points and condenser.



    If the rotor does not turn, thats a whole 'nother story.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    So, Geoff ... clue us in. Did you find the problem, and what was it?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    All good now, Thanks.



    New cap, new points, new coil (spark was weak to the plugs). Spark now but not running.



    (Could have been the mouse nest in the carb, ya think?)



    So, took off the carb, rebuilt it, took off the manifold and cleaned it up (probably pointless, but what the heck -- I was there).



    Still not running ... hmmmm.



    Check compression, timing, gap again. Some idiot (I'm guessing it was me) put the wires on 180.



    Switched the wires and BOY OH BOY does she run smooth. It's a tank on the road, but running like silk.



    Next? Brakes, getting headlights working properly, checking front end and bearings etc. AND A WASH!
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Canadian Hud wrote:
    All good now, Thanks.



    New cap, new points, new coil (spark was weak to the plugs). Spark now but not running.



    (Could have been the mouse nest in the carb, ya think?)



    So, took off the carb, rebuilt it, took off the manifold and cleaned it up (probably pointless, but what the heck -- I was there).



    Still not running ... hmmmm.



    Check compression, timing, gap again. Some idiot (I'm guessing it was me) put the wires on 180.



    Switched the wires and BOY OH BOY does she run smooth. It's a tank on the road, but running like silk.



    Next? Brakes, getting headlights working properly, checking front end and bearings etc. AND A WASH!



    Geoff-



    Thanks for updating us (and to Park for asking). Mouse nest in the carb is certainly worth looking into . . .:D



    I'm probably slightly better than your average shade-tree mechanic of say, two or three decades ago and having the wires backwards on a Hudson is nothing to be ashamed of, I guarantee you. I just went through that myself. Reason is, with Hudsons, you set #6 at TDC, not #1. You know that, you got it made. Don't know why all the other cars manufactured in the 20th century have it backwards, but hey, that's life.



    One of the first things I was taught, along with thousands of other mechanic wanna-bes, was: If you got spark, and you got gas, you can make her run. Nice little feature to have with a car.



    Modern day cars on the other hand, OMG!! A good friend of mine asked me to take a look at her Nissan . . .Sentra, I think, earlier today. Keyless ignition, wouldn't start. What a nightmare, lucky for me, her battery wasn't strong enough to engage starter (wherever THAT was). TYJ!



    Sounds good, though with your car. Good luck on the rest of the repairs!!
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    RL Chilton wrote:

    One of the first things I was taught, along with thousands of other mechanic wanna-bes, was: If you got spark, and you got gas, you can make her run. Nice little feature to have with a car.



    I used to work for an AAA garage in the mountains, and was the "no-start" guy whose job it was to get running the cars (usually frozen) that were hauled in.



    I quickly learned that there are not two but three things necessary to run...spark, gas, and nothing broken inside the engine.



    Like just about everything else, I learned that the hard way.



    All the best...
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    junkcarfann wrote:
    I used to work for an AAA garage in the mountains, and was the "no-start" guy whose job it was to get running the cars (usually frozen) that were hauled in.



    I quickly learned that there are not two but three things necessary to run...spark, gas, and nothing broken inside the engine.



    Like just about everything else, I learned that the hard way.



    All the best...



    Yep, that's true. But, this was assuming that the engine turns freely to begin with. The end of that little saying was: . . . it may not run worth a damn, but it WILL run.
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    But an engine with a broken cam or timing belt (or fiber cam gear) or distributor drive will turn over freely, but never run until fixed. And, if the cam is broken in the middle, you will have some compression, and really wonder what the heck is going on. (saw that happen once.)
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Another lesson, learned early on ... don't assume anything! A new part isn't necessarily good, and what the owner tells you about symptoms, etc., must be taken with a BIG grain of salt. And another ... check the easy to check stuff first, even if you don't think that's the source of the problem. It's a bummer to dive into hard-to-get-at things you think may be the problem, only to find later it was something right handy on the engine.
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    ....and then there are the things that "go bad sometimes" which REALLY confound you! Like the fiber timing gears on the splashers, whose hubs separate from the outer portion with the gears. The timing gear can be right one minute (and the car is running smoothly), then the hub shifts a few degrees from the gears, and the car won't run at all. Then it may shift back (as you're trying to start it, for example). So, the car is in, and out, of time.
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