More 1950 Questions
There is a 1950 Pacemaker listed on EBay that brings up some more questions about the differences between models:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-HUDSON-PACEMAKER-TWIN-H-POWER_W0QQitemZ180417321635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2a01b5daa3
The biggest question I have is the grill. On mine, the parking lights are below a seemingly narrower lowest grill bar, but on this one, they are in line with a wider bar. I had never noticed this difference until looking at a 1950 Super recently, so I thought it was a Super/Pacemaker thing but now I wonder.
Other exterior differences are fender ornaments and a different hood ornament, but they could easily have been added or changed.
On the inside, my dash has what looks like a burlap pattern but this one is woodgrained. Again, this could have been changed but I'm curious if it was. (While I'm on the dash, does anyone know how to replicate the burlap pattern that I have?) This one also seems to have a fancier steering wheel.
Last, the engine is a 262, but i thought 1950 Pacemakers all had 232's. Once again, curiosity about how they came more than questioning this one's originality.
Is there any definitive list of the differences between models? Every time I see another one for sale, I spot something else that doesn't match mine. I had always assumed that mine was correct because it was bought by my father in the mid fifties and he isn't really the kind of person to make changes but now I wonder.
Sorry about the long post.
Chris
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-HUDSON-PACEMAKER-TWIN-H-POWER_W0QQitemZ180417321635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2a01b5daa3
The biggest question I have is the grill. On mine, the parking lights are below a seemingly narrower lowest grill bar, but on this one, they are in line with a wider bar. I had never noticed this difference until looking at a 1950 Super recently, so I thought it was a Super/Pacemaker thing but now I wonder.
Other exterior differences are fender ornaments and a different hood ornament, but they could easily have been added or changed.
On the inside, my dash has what looks like a burlap pattern but this one is woodgrained. Again, this could have been changed but I'm curious if it was. (While I'm on the dash, does anyone know how to replicate the burlap pattern that I have?) This one also seems to have a fancier steering wheel.
Last, the engine is a 262, but i thought 1950 Pacemakers all had 232's. Once again, curiosity about how they came more than questioning this one's originality.
Is there any definitive list of the differences between models? Every time I see another one for sale, I spot something else that doesn't match mine. I had always assumed that mine was correct because it was bought by my father in the mid fifties and he isn't really the kind of person to make changes but now I wonder.
Sorry about the long post.
Chris
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Comments
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Chris-
Well, I'm no PM expert, but I go over this kind of stuff every day-- always studying different models, trim features, etc.
First off, that's a Commodore treatment on the front end with the parking lamps. Pacemaker parking lamps are below that bottom trim piece.
Secondly, that's a Commodore hood ornament, as well.
Heads can easily be changed between 232, 262 and 308's. As far as the interior on this car on E-Bay, it's obviously been re-done and appears more "Commodorish" as well, but not positive.
Sounds like to me, yours is more like it came from the factory from your description.
Also, keep in mind that Hudson, along with many of the other independents didn't exactly stay "to the letter" on parts from one year to the next, or even from one model to the next. Lots of parts carry over to the next year of production, simply because there was a surplus, or was a shortage in the new batch of parts, or whatever situation arose that would cause management to keep the line moving. It was a business of making cars, but the bottom line drove the effort.
I've found LOTS of funny little things like you've discovered on this car, where you can tell, a certain discrepancy came from the factory just as you are seeing it, but it's the wrong part, or wrong year, or whatever.
I just recently found out there was a few 8C models, which would be a 1953 Commodore 8. "There's no such thing!", one might say. And you would sort of be right, as no literature will attest to the above, and probably you would not find any record anywhere of such an animal. But, since '52 was the last year for the straight-8, what do you think would happen to the 8cyl. engines left over when production in '52 was over? Make up a few 8C's, which wouldn't be very hard and sell a few more cars, that's what.
Discrepancies aside, the PM on E-Bay has been Commodorized, somewhat.0 -
cpr3333 wrote:There is a 1950 Pacemaker listed on EBay that brings up some more questions about the differences between models:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-HUDSON-PACEMAKER-TWIN-H-POWER_W0QQitemZ180417321635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2a01b5daa3
The biggest question I have is the grill. On mine, the parking lights are below a seemingly narrower lowest grill bar, but on this one, they are in line with a wider bar. I had never noticed this difference until looking at a 1950 Super recently, so I thought it was a Super/Pacemaker thing but now I wonder.
Other exterior differences are fender ornaments and a different hood ornament, but they could easily have been added or changed.
On the inside, my dash has what looks like a burlap pattern but this one is woodgrained. Again, this could have been changed but I'm curious if it was. (While I'm on the dash, does anyone know how to replicate the burlap pattern that I have?) This one also seems to have a fancier steering wheel.
Last, the engine is a 262, but i thought 1950 Pacemakers all had 232's. Once again, curiosity about how they came more than questioning this one's originality.
Is there any definitive list of the differences between models? Every time I see another one for sale, I spot something else that doesn't match mine. I had always assumed that mine was correct because it was bought by my father in the mid fifties and he isn't really the kind of person to make changes but now I wonder.
Sorry about the long post.
Chris
I believe you are right about the location of the parking lights Chris. Here is a pic of my 50 Pacemaker, and as far as I know the grille and parking lights are correct but one never knows !! Richie.0 -
As Russell says there are a number of owner preference items on the car.
- Senior car hood ornament - 1950
- Senior car Bottom grill bar with parking lights - 1950
- Senior car valance panels added to the doors and rear
- Hudson Hornet emblems added to front door valances
( Note this is key to another item about this car)
-1952-3 Senior Car steering wheel
- Twin H emblem trunk
- Rear back up lights - very similar to the 52-3 Senior car accessory
- I believe the engine is actually a Hornet 308 equipped with 262 head, headers and twin H. I tried to pull up the side picture of the engine to enlarge ... it is the only one that will not... but in the smaller picture is it apparent to me there is a reinforcement rib on the engine... making it a Honet block.
The Dash is actually Pacemaker that was woodgrained in a style like the 48-49 model cars.
To me the car brings the restorers personnality to the for front... For me this is KOOL... and inline with my nearly 50 year Hudson addiction.
Cheers from TEXAS0 -
The '50 Pacemakers used the same park lamps as the '48-49 models. Also the rear window. Another example of Hudson using up all the old stock!0
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VIN says it's a Pacemaker as do some of the other body features. Note that many step-down parts will interchange between models and even wheelbases. Some of the performance minded Hudson guys liked putting the more powerful Hudson Hornet engine in the short wheelbase cars and I've heard it claimed that it made for a better balanced and better performing car. The motor mounts on all 3 stepdown engines are physically the same and will interchange..
Also the famous Chicago dealer Jim Moran was known to take in Pacemakers in on trade which had little resale value at the time and have his mechanics put in crate 308 engines then slap badges on the trunk that said "Baby Hornet" in order to be able to sell them to buyers who demanded a car that would do better than 60-80 mph.
It is also possible this car was restored with parts the restorer just happened to have on hand or personally wanted the car equipped with.
It's all Hudson but might not satisfy you if you are a purist.
As for the Burlap pattern I dunno anyone that duplicates those. (personally I'd wonder why you would want to although it is unique) Perhaps they took actual burlap and spray painted through it to get the effect. Doesn't convincingly simulate cloth though.
The backup lights would only be found on a Pacemaker Deluxe although that's one of those items I'm sure any dealer would have installed for you if you really wanted them.0 -
I have now owned three 50 Pacemakers. Currently one which closely resembles Richie's car. In Peacock green of course.
My current Pacemaker was freshened up sometime in the early 80's and had the dash painted a solid metalic tan color.
Only those of us that know better ever notice.
The two previous cars had the burlap/hounds tooth pattern on the dash and were of course sun baked and worn.
A gentleman by the name of Bill Koressel is currently working on duplicating the process and hopes to make an attempt I believe soon at recreating a 50 Pacemaker dash. I'm anxious to see it.
Hopefully he will join the forum and show his results. I have seen his wood graining skills and they are excellent!
As everyone here has posted. Hudson (as well as other makes) often used a variety of parts to start or finish a model year.
Tim0 -
RL Chilton wrote:Chris-
Well, I'm no PM expert, but I go over this kind of stuff every day-- always studying different models, trim features, etc.
First off, that's a Commodore treatment on the front end with the parking lamps. Pacemaker parking lamps are below that bottom trim piece.
Secondly, that's a Commodore hood ornament, as well.
Heads can easily be changed between 232, 262 and 308's. As far as the interior on this car on E-Bay, it's obviously been re-done and appears more "Commodorish" as well, but not positive.
Sounds like to me, yours is more like it came from the factory from your description.
Also, keep in mind that Hudson, along with many of the other independents didn't exactly stay "to the letter" on parts from one year to the next, or even from one model to the next. Lots of parts carry over to the next year of production, simply because there was a surplus, or was a shortage in the new batch of parts, or whatever situation arose that would cause management to keep the line moving. It was a business of making cars, but the bottom line drove the effort.
I've found LOTS of funny little things like you've discovered on this car, where you can tell, a certain discrepancy came from the factory just as you are seeing it, but it's the wrong part, or wrong year, or whatever.
I just recently found out there was a few 8C models, which would be a 1953 Commodore 8. "There's no such thing!", one might say. And you would sort of be right, as no literature will attest to the above, and probably you would not find any record anywhere of such an animal. But, since '52 was the last year for the straight-8, what do you think would happen to the 8cyl. engines left over when production in '52 was over? Make up a few 8C's, which wouldn't be very hard and sell a few more cars, that's what.
Discrepancies aside, the PM on E-Bay has been Commodorized, somewhat.
From what I was told at one time (Alex) there were approximately 300 8C's made. I do not believe any are left. I wonder how many had 308's dropped in them in later years? Since I am a 8B owner I found this interesting.0 -
Thanks for the responses. Do you mind a few more questions brought on by the responses?
The backup lights would only be found on a Pacemaker Deluxe although that's one of those items I'm sure any dealer would have installed for you if you really wanted them.
Mine is a Deluxe (50A serial number) and it doesn't have the backup lights. Was that a 1950 option or did that come later?
In Peacock green of course.
What's up with that? Mine was originally Peacock green (and will be again), my parts car is/was the same and so are most of them that I see. I know they made other colors, so why so many in this color?
A gentleman by the name of Bill Koressel is currently working on duplicating the process and hopes to make an attempt I believe soon at recreating a 50 Pacemaker dash. I'm anxious to see it.
Hopefully he will join the forum and show his results. I have seen his wood graining skills and they are excellent!
If/when you hear from him and if he doesn't join, please post the results.
My current Pacemaker was freshened up sometime in the early 80's and had the dash painted a solid metalic tan color.
My interior window trim is painted like that and looks original. Any idea of the actual color specs? I was thinking of doing the same thing to the dash if I can't replicate the original pattern.
Thanks again for all of the responses. I'm an engineer and tend to get wrapped up in minor details. I'm not trying to pick apart what other people have done to their cars, I'm just trying to understand how they were originally built
Chris0 -
Chris,
Green was a popular color......
Mine is a Deluxe as well and doesn't have back up lights.
You could get a back up light on anything. Probably an extra $4.25.
I sent you a pm with Bill's contact information.
I do believe the windows were all a solid color. It was only the dash that was hounds tooth/burlap. (I like that description!)
Anyone know what it is really called?
Tim0 -
Anyone know what it is really called?
I think it's just called "that funky pattern":D0 -
How about Berber?
As in Berber Carpet - definition: Berber carpets are a style of carpet containing big and small tufts. They use a loop pile construction type, and usually contain small flecks of dark color on lighter shades of background colors.
Just a guess, but that's what it looks like to me.
John0 -
Maybe it's "that funky Berber pattern"
Ya never now.0 -
I just looked it up in a 1950 brochure that I forgot I had. Here is what it says:
"Here's the modern-design Pacemaker instrument panel with new and exclusive fabric-pattern finish."
Sorry, but "funky" is not included in the description.
Chris0 -
cpr3333 wrote:I just looked it up in a 1950 brochure that I forgot I had. Here is what it says:
"Here's the modern-design Pacemaker instrument panel with new and exclusive fabric-pattern finish."
Sorry, but "funky" is not included in the description.
Chris
Hey, the Hudson Ad writers were pretty bad, but they weren't THAT bad!:D LOL!0
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