53 Hornet Sedan Value Help
Snailslayer
Expert Adviser
Im going to look at this 53 Hornet Sedan for sale tomorrow. I was looking to get some Opinions as to a FMV for it. I am looking to by a nice complete hornet Sedan Driver to commute about 10K a year in good weather adn this one seems to fit well but i want to make sure the price is right.
According to the owner it was restored about 5 years ago. He bought it 3 years ago. it was repainted on the exterior and interior and reupolstered at that time. it has a rebuilt 308 to 7x specs (has reciept but nothing with engine specs though. The Hydramatic went out last fall apparently but drove great before that. will move if you rev it up and nuetral drop it and keep on the throttle.
Its beeen converted to 12V and everything works (guages lights etc) Vac assist wipers are iffy.
Bright work seems to be redone well.
I dont have any info or pics of the rear frame or common rust areas but will personally inspect tomorrow for sure..
the car is pretty local and ive ben reading about the 700r4 swap feasibility and adaptors.
these are the only pics I have right now.
If the frame is solid and given the trans is blown, what would a FMV range for this car be?
can you see anything mismatched, incorrect or wrong with it?
is the Black exterior, blue interior a stock color combo?
any help is appreciated. you can PM me or email me direclt if you choose not to post. Im serious about buying the car if its worth the asking price as it sits. thank you
Bradley
bradley_due@hotmail.com
According to the owner it was restored about 5 years ago. He bought it 3 years ago. it was repainted on the exterior and interior and reupolstered at that time. it has a rebuilt 308 to 7x specs (has reciept but nothing with engine specs though. The Hydramatic went out last fall apparently but drove great before that. will move if you rev it up and nuetral drop it and keep on the throttle.
Its beeen converted to 12V and everything works (guages lights etc) Vac assist wipers are iffy.
Bright work seems to be redone well.
I dont have any info or pics of the rear frame or common rust areas but will personally inspect tomorrow for sure..
the car is pretty local and ive ben reading about the 700r4 swap feasibility and adaptors.
these are the only pics I have right now.
If the frame is solid and given the trans is blown, what would a FMV range for this car be?
can you see anything mismatched, incorrect or wrong with it?
is the Black exterior, blue interior a stock color combo?
any help is appreciated. you can PM me or email me direclt if you choose not to post. Im serious about buying the car if its worth the asking price as it sits. thank you
Bradley
bradley_due@hotmail.com
0
Comments
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Looks pretty nice to me. Black exterior with the Blue interior was very 'correct'. The interior looks a little "suspect" as far as originality goes but I wouldn't throw it out! The engine is nice and clean. (Alunimum head or just painted silver?). Wipers are always "iffy".
You don't say how much they want so it's hard to say if it's worth it. If it's under $10K, I say "grab it". (BTW,most of us here know a guy that can fix that hydramatic for you.)0 -
$10,000 ..... Join the HET club, then call Gus Souza. hehe Upon looking at your pics appears to be a '52 and not a '53 but the serial plate would determine definately.0
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I joined the HET a couple months ago but havent recieved my packet nor the WTN as of yet so I cant look over any comparables on my own. I dont have the VIN yet to confirm year, but isnt that a 53 Hood?
Im not against the Hydramatic as long as its reliable for 10K miles a year and can cruise at 70 on the interstate. I dont know what r/e ratio is in it, can anyone enlighten me as to what it might be in stock form?
I appreciate the incite thus far.0 -
A car in the shape you are seeing in the pictures has had a LOT of monies invested in it. With a good frame you can not duplicate the car for $10,000 US with or without a good Hydramatic. The interior redo appears to use the replacement fabric from Duralee (?Sp). Overall the car appears to be in super shape. Add in a couple of grand for a Hydramatic rebuild and you will have the total cost picture. A 52-53 Hornet in great shape should bring 12K or more.
Let us know the outcome of your viewing .
Good Luck0 -
It is a '53 hood but the grill have the ttriangle bars indicating a '52 but those could've been added or the grille swapped. Serial number is on the passenger side door post. '53's start with "7C" and '52's "7B"0
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I believe this is the old professor's car. Dad to "rather fix than switch"? His was a '53.0
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I just recently sold my 52 (By the way, this is a 53) and they have a lot in common. Also, the prices for these cars have increased over the past year and getting it for ten is robery. I would be supprised if they let it go for that. Also, there are a number of transmission combinations that will work for this car and 2k for the transmission (after market or original) is about twice what it should cost (I add that comment because everyone thinks the prices I quote from here in Utah are about half what going rate is?) If the frame is good (even if it has some rust in the common areas) and everything is acceptable you should be able to go as high as 18K and consider you got a good deal. However, bottom line is that there are a lot of cars you could buy for a daily driver that would be much less money. But, if you want a Hudson this one looks like a good deal. And, by the way, I have a very soft spot in my heart for these stepdown sedans.
Brownie Petersen
Petersen Historical Automobile Appraisals0 -
Thank you for the in depth analysis. The gentleman is asking 12K for it.
it seems so far it would be worth 12K if the trans was fine and it was a driver.
So the few issues I have are the trans (-1K for a Souza Hydramatic) the engine not being documented 7x modded rebuild , could be a normal 308 (-?)
noone commented about this so maybe im over thinking it
Also as its not test drivable- the trust factor that there are no hidden issues (-?)
so 10-11K would be an acceptable offer/ reasonable cash price given no rust issues.
does this seem accurate so far?0 -
Bradley,
This looks like lots of car to me. (and it isn't green either) I've never piped in before when someone is asking about the value of a car. However the bottom line to me is always "do I really want it". I think anything well spent on this car will prove to be a good decision using what everyone else has said.
To me the "fun factor" of having one of these provides more bang for the buck than anything else I can steer down the road.
Best of luck in your quest for a Hudson.
You will find that the folks in the club and on this message board are more response than a group of EMT's.
Hudsonly,
Tim0 -
If the car has no rust issues in the places all ready mentioned, 10-12K is a fine price for that car regardless of a blown tranny. As stated earlier, you couldn't build one for that price. I'd snap it up, personally.0
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I believe it has a '52 grille and that is a 53 hood. Check the vin to confirm the year. The rear seat upholstery looks like it wasn't done quite right, but still looks good overall. Take a close look for typical rust issues on the perimeter frame and the main frame, especially at the start of the arch at the rear end and where the springs mount. I've seen these areas painted up with POR and they look good at a quick glance but there are problems. Judging from the pictures, it looks a nice car.
Black with the blue interior was always my favorite for the sedans. Best of luck!0 -
I'd echo what Tim said....do you really want it? Would you still be happy with it if you were stuck with it ? I don't really agree that a sedan is a steal at $10-$12 K that just seems to be the going rate for a good one. The Hornet sedans '51-'53 are not exactly rare or scarce but are they desireable enough by enough hobbyists to boost the average value up over that? Maybe. Club Coupes on the other hand have already proved that they are. If Hudson ever made what could be considered a "muscle car" that would be it. I'm less shy about picking up cars with mechanical problems but major welding projects....you may be better off being patient. If the frame and everything else is solid but (worst case scenario) it turned out to need a complete engine/drivetrain rebuild you'd expect to drop another 6-8000 K into it assuming you did none of the work yourself.0
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Thankyou for pinpointing some specific areas to look at so I can be focused looking it over. i will take and post some pics of what I find out.
I prefer a 4 door vs a coupe because I will be hauling my toddler with carseat, family, groceries and other misc things often and a 2 door isnt the most convenient for doing that. Also I personally like the roofline better. And of course they are less expensive.
There is a 51 Hollywood Buried in a barn a mile away from me and if i get a itch for a coupe, I will bug the nice old lady that has it to uncover it and maybe let it go. but for Daily Driving The 4 Door will fit the bill the best. Thank you for all the positive and constructive comments
Brad0 -
volksheime wrote:Thankyou for pinpointing some specific areas to look at so I can be focused looking it over. i will take and post some pics of what I find out.
I prefer a 4 door vs a coupe because I will be hauling my toddler with carseat, family, groceries and other misc things often and a 2 door isnt the most convenient for doing that. Also I personally like the roofline better. And of course they are less expensive.
There is a 51 Hollywood Buried in a barn a mile away from me and if i get a itch for a coupe, I will bug the nice old lady that has it to uncover it and maybe let it go. but for Daily Driving The 4 Door will fit the bill the best. Thank you for all the positive and constructive comments
Brad
My 2 cents is it is a nice car. A rebuilt Hydramatic will last decades. Easy to get one from Gus Souza or Al Saffron. I'd be interested in buying the 51 Hollywood. Ask the old lady, maybe she can use the cash for the holidays. Niels (310)502-53350 -
Bradley,
I don't usually comment on values or originality.But as far as a tranny goes why not look for a 700r4 or better yer a 4L60-not an "E" from around 1992 GM junker.Always rebuild with a "Beast" sun shell -about forty bucks and new clutches [fiber] all this equates to a mod but a much better tranny with OD and should be less money including the adapter plate. I don't know where you are but am sure there is a shop to get one from close by
I keep one for possible changes and they are not hard to find or rebuild0 -
Well I got back from the car inspection. I didnt take any pics, but here is what I found.
the car only has about 2000 miles on it since the restoration. the engine was in good running condition and the guy drove it back 1200 miles from canada. i didnt hear it run but said he would run it if i wanted to pull the trigger and it was a final decision kinda thing. it has some light greas/ oil residue on the bottom of the block no oil leaks though. trans leaks some now. theres some grease and grime on the steering and shift linkage underneath. steering wheel has 2" of play in it
The underside is pretty clean good driver quality appearance, a little road grime but not gunked up - it has has a light undercoating sprayed on the entire underside. The rear main and perimeter frame are seemingly solid. It shows signs of being repaired a little as the with some hard to identify patchs and tar at every jointand seam. the floor pans are super solid all the way. there is some evidence of rust flakes in a couple seams if you poke at them. But the frame has no rust through thats visible and is smooth on all the flat rails and it looks and feels solid. trunk pan and spare well is solid. rear frame top under the trunk had some rust flakes where you could see it wasnt cleaned up because of accessibility. a couple of the 1" 45 degree coss bars have been rewelded with gobby kinda welds. the leaf sping attch point look solid. the tar was used on the seams and didnt look half assed there wasnt any tar on the flat surfaces like they pasted over a hole or excessive amount covering corners. THe bottom A pillars are good, no crust.
The body work is pretty decent, like an 8 of 10. it needs color sanded below the trim line it has some touch up ups done. needs a good buff all over but presentable as is. there is a couple dime size rust paint bubbles on the lower door corners. no rust on the door bottoms.
needs door gaskets, couple vent window rubbers and trunk gasket. can see some rust flakes where the lower trunk gasket was. Trunk floor is solid
i magneted it some and i think there is a little bondo as a part of the straightening process it seems but nothing i saw as unshapely or unneeded amount or poorly done. there isnt hammer markes under the hood or truck adn the fenders underneath are super clean.
The brightwork was redone on the front and rear bumpers and headlight/ taillights and hood ornaments is done really well. the side trim is ok but he includes a set of new and rechromed side trim, less the pork chops. vent window frames are pitted. the lower trim is presentable not attached 100% and the side trim is poorly attached i think.
The Doors all have varying gaps and all need to be slammed to shut all the way which i was kinda dissapointed in but dont know if this is common and a striker plate adjustmetn or sagging doors and hinges. windows roll down pretty easily
the interior is complete and presentable but all the chrome trim/ column needs redone. its pitted. the upolstry needs a pro cleaning but no tears, bad stains or stink. the carpet is ok. the seat springs squeak, the driver part of the front seat has a kind of bar below the vinyl top piece that kinda rubs on my back and isnt present in the middle or passenger side... kinda wierd.
the back seat is way comfortable but the springs squeak and the seating position in the front is pretty nice too. just need a custom arm rest. headliner is a 9.
Guages work, Original radio does not. the door jams are black painted but look kinda rough.
Gas tank is out of it and he said it looked rough but didnt leak and functioned fine. he was going to replace it with a stainless replacement (not included).
the trans adaptor hes including is a Bendington (sp? i cant remeber) brand and has a starter and manual flywheel to go with it, as well as a "good" 700r4. he recommended the 700r4 over the Hydramatic but doesnt wanna dig into it. I asked him if hed fix the trans and he said if he did he would keep it.
Hes firm on the 12K price and doesnt need to sell it.
I think it was fixed to be a driver. i wish i could drive it down the road to get a good feeel for squeaks and comfort level but I cant. the rebuilt twin h 308 and 12V is a huge plus and the upolstry pretty good is nice too. the doors needing slammed shut and lack of good dash chrome trim is disssapointing to me and the steering has 2"of play but some TLC is part of the game
id be up in the air about the trans. gus said 1250 exchange for teh Hydramatic and about 600 +/- for install to have him do it.
Overall it was fixed to be a driver i think. i think it had some common rust issues and they were repaired seemingly well. it did run and drive well before the trans lock up in forward gears.0 -
Volksheime-
I sent you a PM.0 -
Based on your report and your obvious disappointment you might want to pass on this one...
I am by no means an expert on Hudson pricing... but have some experience with buying, selling and repairing classics (body and paint)...
These would be some of my concerns and things that make me "suspect"
- 20k miles since "restoration" and tranny is shot... maybe they didn't go through the tranny and that's OK... I'm always suspect when I hear the word "restored" and blown tranny in the same conversation.
- You couldn't start the car... gas tank out or not, a gas can, battery and jumper cables could have been available to at least hear it run. Maybe there's some underlying engine problems...
- Paint and sealer hiding rust and/or filler. Rust on cars this age can be expected, but if you are expecting a cream puff and it has flaking rust as you said, then this may not be your new car.
You mentioned cost of having the trans installed... what level of work are you able and willing to do? I ask this because if you have any major rust and you have to farm out the chassis repair work, body work and paint, you are looking at some serious bucks.
If this was your dream car (this specific one) or had some sentimental value to you then I would probably buy it for the right price (that's what you're willing to pay and what he's willing to take) and be prepared to shell out the cash to make the repairs or the time involved to do it yourself.
If your looking for a driver as you said, you may want to keep looking as some have already suggested... there are others out there and with the economy the way it is it is generally a buyers market. Cash is king and that nice driver (or real nice) is out there...
Good luck
Craig0 -
I agree you may want to be patient. I've been burned in the past for being too impatient to buy an old car and then seen other cars in better condition get away after I had already bought one.
I'd keep an eye in the WTN. maybe ask a chapter member or two if they know of anyone who was mumbling about selling their Hudson. Heck maybe going to a chapter meeting and just annoucing "I'm in the market" might toss some options on your table. Keeping your ear to the ground and just being ready for it might produce a better buy.
If you want to play hard ball with this particular car you could just say "I'll give you $7K cash for it.. here's my number. He'll either call you, call and counter offer, or not call, but if he did then you could definately put the difference into fixing what needs fixing.
According to the 2005-2007 HET roster there's 5,741 Hudson's in the club and more outside the club......yours is out there.0 -
This is off craigslist...
1951 Hudson Hornet. This is an original unrestored car, some might call it preservation class. It's not perfect but it couldnt be much better for a 60 year old car. This Hornet has the original L flathead straight 6 engine. The car has almost every part and piece of chrome that came with it from the factory, even the upholstery is still there, let the pictures speak for themselves. It starts up and drives, will go in reverse, drive, and low gear but wont shift into 2nd gear. I'm not sure if it just needs a fluid change or more extensive tranny work. If you have more questions or would like to see more pics just ask. I hate to sell this classic car and I'm not in a bind for money so serious inquiries only please.
Not really interested to trade but email me and let me know what you have. Not sure that I need anything but am willing to entertain offers. Of course I would rather have cash. Trade would have to be in the $3,000 range or higher! I might be interested in trading for finishing my basement (part of the basement needs framing, sheetrock/drywall, and outlets) and putting a new wall and door up in the house.
For more pics: http://www.pavelstudios.com/ps/misc/hudson/index.html
Also, check out the history of these cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Hornet
The description is a bit lavish, but to offer a different perspective: Here is an apparently solid car that needs a complete restoration. You're starting out at $3K. You will never be able to throw $9K at this car and have it match the one for $12K.
If someone was really interested in the black sedan, I would plan an day to spend with it. Like some one said, use a can of gas or take a spare tank with you and hook it up. Check the transmission fluid...it seems obvious that this would've been done, but if it's down a quart or two... I've had one before that leaked the fluid and required the occasional topping off.0 -
After much debate I decided to let this one go. I talked with the seller today and he said that after my decision, he decided to keep it. He saw my enthusiasm for the car and it re-motivated him to get it out of the basement and into the garage where he can dig into it and fix the trans over the winter.
It worked out well for both of us.
I am searching for a 52/ 53 Hornet with much teh same perimeters as mjsands in an earlier thread. Something mechanically sound, solid, and unmolested. im not in a hurry for the car and i am looking for a good candidate for a nice driver. I may put a want ad in the WTN. I appreciate all comments and insight you guys provided in this thread and the forum in general. My search will continue.
as for the 51 hollywood I eluded to earlier, The old lady in question is in a nursing home and the car is in her garage (they were her husbands who passed). she was happy to have her daughter show it to me but when i contacted her daughter a couple times, she was very aprehensive to show me, even tell me about the cars (a 51 hollywood and 53 ? and a 70 something Rebel Machine) I didnt press the issue any further.
thanks again
Brad0 -
,,,as for the 51 hollywood I eluded to earlier, The old lady in question is in a nursing home and the car is in her garage (they were her husbands who passed). she was happy to have her daughter show it to me but when i contacted her daughter a couple times, she was very aprehensive to show me, even tell me about the cars (a 51 hollywood and 53 ? and a 70 something Rebel Machine) I didnt press the issue any further.
This scenario is common... I purchased a 22K 54 Hornet that had sat in the original owners garage for the 17 years he was in an assisted living and then nursing home. After the owner passed on, his daughter was the one who had to settle affairs. She found the car in the garage, where it was parked by her father the day he had a stroke. She saw an old car that needed to be scrapped. Lucky for me she put a small ad in a Ne newspaper and I bought the car for $200.00 ! Another time while traveling down the street in a west Texas city, I noticed an open garage door and a Hudson sitting in the garage. I circled back to find the executor of the estate pondering a 48 C8 Sedan. Wonderfully preserved automobile whose owner had kept the Hudson serviced but did not drive it for more than a decade. Unfortunately, for me, another classic car nut had already bought that running car for $400.00. Point, your car will surface from the most unexpected places.0 -
A fellow in Lodi CA named Garry was selling a '52 4 door Hornet about 6 months ago. It was his father's who had passed away. I looked at it and it had an amature restoration severial years back. As I recall he wanted $8k.
Seemed like a nice guy and willing to let me crawl around the car and drive it.
If you would like a contact number for him let me know.
Scot0 -
Volksheime-
Didn't get your e-mail! Did you drop the "HET" off of the front of the address? Necessary in order to get to me.0 -
I did drop the HET. i resent it and PM'd the CC. thanks
Brad0 -
volksheime wrote:I did drop the HET. i resent it and PM'd the CC. thanks
Brad
I had to do a double take - I don't know of anyone who resent(s) Russell...then I realized you meant "re-sent" the email0 -
Check out this issue of the WTN. There is a 53 Super Wasp Sedan for sale in Green Bay, Wi. 9K. charles Smith 920.336.4569. You might call him and get some photo's.0
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volksheime wrote:After much debate I decided to let this one go. I talked with the seller today and he said that after my decision, he decided to keep it. He saw my enthusiasm for the car and it re-motivated him to get it out of the basement and into the garage where he can dig into it and fix the trans over the winter.
It worked out well for both of us.
I am searching for a 52/ 53 Hornet with much teh same perimeters as mjsands in an earlier thread. Something mechanically sound, solid, and unmolested. im not in a hurry for the car and i am looking for a good candidate for a nice driver. I may put a want ad in the WTN. I appreciate all comments and insight you guys provided in this thread and the forum in general. My search will continue.
as for the 51 hollywood I eluded to earlier, The old lady in question is in a nursing home and the car is in her garage (they were her husbands who passed). she was happy to have her daughter show it to me but when i contacted her daughter a couple times, she was very aprehensive to show me, even tell me about the cars (a 51 hollywood and 53 ? and a 70 something Rebel Machine) I didnt press the issue any further.
thanks again
Brad
I felt my ears burning
As you know we found a 52 and are thrilled with it :cool: I am very happy we bought a car that could be driven right away. Taking it for a spin really makes me smileeven when I get down about the time and money I need to put into it.
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Sorry this didn't work out for you. I got excited... Hang in there. You will find your car!
Tim0 -
Michael-
You mean they don't even require license plates in WI? What a deal!0
This discussion has been closed.
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