Engine Oil

kamzack
kamzack Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I know I'm about to a 55 gallon barrell of worms and I know I'll get beat up, but this zinc issue has been buggin me for sometime now. I was a sales rep for an oil company for 14 years and still use thier product line. I've several of my friens ask me about the anti-wear components with respect to falt tappet engines. The article in our current issue of WTN been going round and round in my head long enough, so I called the mfgr. today.

The company is Lubrication Engineers. The PPM of zinc is right at 1600 on the high side and 1200 on the low side. This is for the 15w40, product #8800,

The tech service rep and president of the company are old cars guys and they say this is the best oil for our type of engines. It also resists acid hydrolysis that comes from being stored. Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this, but wante my fellow hudnuts to there is an oil out there that ya don't have to add anything to.

They have a website and thier phone # 800-537-7683.

It's more money, but our investment in our cars and trucks are worth it. Don't spend a fortune on a restoration and penny pinch on its blood.

Kim

Comments

  • Browniepetersen
    Browniepetersen Senior Contributor
    Nice advertisement........ Hard sell.
  • esfoder
    esfoder Expert Adviser
    Yeah I've herd all this before. They have even stopped by and try to sell me some of there stuff. I think it has some merit but I've used 15w-40 DELO for many years in everything from Mack Mixer trucks Kw Cummins and Cat Dump trucks to Cat and John Deere wheel loaders to my old Hudson and even a couple of Honda dirt bikes. Oh yeah I ran it in my 70 Camaro with the 6-71 Big Block. NEVER HAD A BIT OF TROUBLE WITH IT!!!!!



    So if it aint broke I aint gonna fix it just keep changing it.



    So there



    Dusty
  • Kdancy
    Kdancy Senior Contributor
    kamzack wrote:
    I know I'm about to a 55 gallon barrell of worms and I know I'll get beat up, but this zinc issue has been buggin me for sometime now. I was a sales rep for an oil company for 14 years and still use thier product line. I've several of my friens ask me about the anti-wear components with respect to falt tappet engines. The article in our current issue of WTN been going round and round in my head long enough, so I called the mfgr. today.

    The company is Lubrication Engineers. The PPM of zinc is right at 1600 on the high side and 1200 on the low side. This is for the 15w40, product #8800,

    The tech service rep and president of the company are old cars guys and they say this is the best oil for our type of engines. It also resists acid hydrolysis that comes from being stored. Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into this, but want my fellow hudnuts to there is an oil out there that ya don't have to add anything to.

    They have a website and their phone # 800-537-7683.

    It's more money, but our investment in our cars and trucks are worth it. Don't spend a fortune on a restoration and penny pinch on its blood.

    Kim



    LE is a well kept secret in the car world, seems they really push their products for big industry use.

    The resistence to hydrolysis is a big plus, no comparison to off the shelf oil for engines that set a long time. My biggest beef with them is the lack of local reps and having to buy in bigger quantites if you are going to get any kind of price break on shipping cost. Too bad it's not sold at the local NAPA.
  • RonS
    RonS Senior Contributor
    What is the Delo product number on the 15w-40? Is it Delo 400 15w-40? Chevron has a whole Delo product line. What stores sell it?
  • esfoder
    esfoder Expert Adviser
    Yes the 400 is big diesel engine oil. But I use it in everything.



    Dusty
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Heck, I've been using Walmart 15W-40 in my Pacemaker (Deluxe!) with no problems either.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I look at it like this . I too have used Chevron and Shell Rotella in my trucks for many years, both are top notch products , they compete with each other for the BIG market . If there was a better formula than they have do you not think they would use it ? Many house brands are made by both companys and those are also as good for less cost but you need to do some digging to know where these come from . Walmart own a refinery ? Not that I know of and they have a market big enough for the top dogs to jump at a chance to supply it .--BUD
  • Huddy42
    Huddy42 Senior Contributor
    I have used shell diesel oil in all of my cars for over twenty years and have not had a problem.



    My brother and I used to run a small spare parts distibution company a few years ago, it was owned by Esso oil co here in Australia, we would buy oil in unmaked 4 litre containers by the pallet load from Esso and would apply stickers on the container to which ever company wanted to buy it, if it was a service station or a department store or a spare parts outlet, all the same oil from the major oil company, just different stickers attached.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Huddy42 wrote:
    I have used shell diesel oil in all of my cars for over twenty years and have not had a problem.



    My brother and I used to run a small spare parts distibution company a few years ago, it was owned by Esso oil co here in Australia, we would buy oil in unmaked 4 litre containers by the pallet load from Esso and would apply stickers on the container to which ever company wanted to buy it, if it was a service station or a department store or a spare parts outlet, all the same oil from the major oil company, just different stickers attached.
    All you Hudson owners, when you rebuild your engine, start with CASTROL 10-40 and use it for the first 5,000 miles, then change it to CASTROL SYNTEC BLEND 10-40 and change your oil every 3,000 miles. My Hudson engine just turned 129.000 miles since rebuild, in 11 years, and only uses 1 quart in 3,000 miles. Just make sure your oil pressure is 35 to 40 pounds at any speed over 35 miles an hour. Stay away from having high oil pressure as all you are doing is ruining the oil pump gear. Walt.
  • Browniepetersen
    Browniepetersen Senior Contributor
    Thanks Walt for speaking up on this subject. Most of us could have said the same thing that you did, but from you it becomes fact.



    I worked with a chemist as we were in the process of developing the methods of converting oil shell into jet fuel some twenty years ago. We both bought our first antique cars at the same time. We ran some tests comparing heat, pressure and speed with metal to metal contact and using oil and oil addatives determined that what Walt is saying is the simple way to give you the readers digest version of what our tests showed. The only thing that I would add to Walts comment is regualr oil changes.. Thanks again Walt....
  • hudsonsplasher1
    hudsonsplasher1 Senior Contributor
    walt's garage-53 wrote:
    All you Hudson owners, when you rebuild your engine, start with CASTROL 10-40 and use it for the first 5,000 miles, then change it to CASTROL SYNTEC BLEND 10-40 and change your oil every 3,000 miles. My Hudson engine just turned 129.000 miles since rebuild, in 11 years, and only uses 1 quart in 3,000 miles. Just make sure your oil pressure is 35 to 40 pounds at any speed over 35 miles an hour. Stay away from having high oil pressure as all you are doing is ruining the oil pump gear. Walt.



    Does the same recomendations aply to the older splasher engines with only 3-4 lbs of pressure?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    hudsonsplasher1 wrote:
    Does the same recomendations aply to the older splasher engines with only 3-4 lbs of pressure?
    Yes, to start using 10-40 oil you must remove the oil pans and clean them out good. Put 1 and 1/2 quarts of oil in the top tray, for 6 cylinder, 2 quarts in 8 cylinders and you will be in good shape. Make sure the rear oil drain hole is opened through the gaskets. I had to tell a few owners about this as after they put the pan back on the oil was coming out the rear of the engine. This oil does not drain off engine parts like the old single grade oil. In the old days when the car set 3 or 4 days and you started your engine you could hear the center main knock for a few seconds. Also the screen would sludge up and you had trouble. 10-40 does not sludge up unless you start your motor and drive it 5 miles and put it back in the garage, this does not dry the moisture out, then sludge. Walt.
  • harry54
    harry54 Senior Contributor
    Walt, What are your thoughts on using a zinc additive ?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    harry54 wrote:
    Walt, What are your thoughts on using a zinc additive ?
    Yes, add it if you can find it. I put 1 bottle of STP in my oil change, the blue one. Walt.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Has anyone tried this?

    pic_2.jpg


    Web Site: http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/index.html

    Sold by the CCCA and produced by D-A Lubricant Company.

    Has 1600PPM of Zinc for flat tappet engines.
  • Kdancy
    Kdancy Senior Contributor
    I find it interesting that an oil company (DA - well known for industrial machinery) partnered with an auto organization to produce an oil just for this market.

    I hope it goes well.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    walt's garage-53 wrote:
    All you Hudson owners, when you rebuild your engine, start with CASTROL 10-40 and use it for the first 5,000 miles, then change it to CASTROL SYNTEC BLEND 10-40 and change your oil every 3,000 miles. My Hudson engine just turned 129.000 miles since rebuild, in 11 years, and only uses 1 quart in 3,000 miles. Just make sure your oil pressure is 35 to 40 pounds at any speed over 35 miles an hour. Stay away from having high oil pressure as all you are doing is ruining the oil pump gear. Walt.



    I second that completely. I have always used Castrol in all my old cars, and going to synthetic after break in is a good idea on a rebuilt engine. Another thing you can do when rebuilding the engine is use low tension rings, the engine will last almost forever then. Speaking from experience, when I was working at the Ford dealership, one of the technicians had to put on a pair of new heads on a 5.4L V8. When he had the heads off, he told me to come and look at the cylinder walls. The engine had over 120,000 miles on it, and you could still see the crosshatches in the cylinder walls as plain as the day they were made. I'm a firm believer in low tension rings and synthetic oil. I'd only use both on a new engine, not a used runner. Another thing, if you're running higher oil pressure, what about going to a thinner oil? The Ford used 5W20, which is a little thin for an older engine, but 10W30 might work well in high oil pressure situations. Whattya think Walt?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I been following this ZDDP crap since it first started a few years ago. Here are some facts. When most of our Hudson's were built there was NO ZDDP in the oil at all. It first appeared in automotive oil during the 1950s and only in tiny quantities at first. This stuff is not a lubricant in the usual sense. It only functions at EXTREMELY high pressure and temperature. This happens in some high performance overhead valve engines, with VERY high cam loadings. It became important during the 1960s when the really hot engines were coming on strong. You can add all you want of it to your flathead Hudson and it will do absolutely NOTHING because the cam loading in these engines is only a fraction of what it takes to make the stuff function. Incidentally, the amount in the new oils is about the same as it was in the mid 1950s. Also,they have added other things to compensate for the reduction. I have been using common over the counter oils right along in Hudsons and other cars, including a turbocharged Corvair which is a fairly high performance HOT running overhead valve engine, and have no sign of a problem in anything. Don't waste your money.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Rod, this topic comes up regular as clockwork every year. So much so I plan my vacations by the appearance of the question. You are correct on the zinc front it only comes into play if you oil breaks down. If you choose an oil and change it regularly you will be fine. Grew up in a garage my Dad had a contract to service school buses we had those engines exceed 200K miles on Quaker State oil and regular oil changes. I change my oil every 2k like clock work. I change it every winter before storage and change in spring when I start driving. Its cheap insurance to clean running engine. Never added anything to oil on all my cars in all the years and they are all still running like fine clocks.



    But this crap isn't just for old engines. I use Mobil 1 synthetic in my new car came with it so I use it. When I went for oil change the garage guy said they have an additive they recommend that bonds to the metal parts extends oil changes or some such nonsense. $26 added to oil change. I laughed my head off. Can you believe this crap. Sucker born every minute. Nothing is a substitute for regular oil changes. Plain and simple.
  • bobbydamit
    bobbydamit Expert Adviser
    One of the key trurths of oil is that it all has water addded to the mix just from running the engine. 1 gallon of gas creates a pint/quart of H20 depending on the weather, and some of it winds up in the oil. Engines don't really [wear] out, as much as they are eroded away by acid. mostly hydrochloric. Running an engine for a minimum of 20 minutes or 7 miles is a good rule of thumb, each time it is started cold. Changing oil often, especially at storage time, is essential in keeping the acidic conditions of oil to a minumum. API approved, 10-30 in cooler climates, or 15-40 in warmer climates, changed often, is the trick. Viscosity index improvers like STP are fine, but if not cleaned out between changes by adding a quart of kerosene to a running at idle, warm engine for 5 minutes before changing, or is can build up in static areas and cause over heating and dirt retention.

    I buy it in 5 gallon cans from tractor supply stores, and save a bundle.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Turbopackman wrote:
    I second that completely. I have always used Castrol in all my old cars, and going to synthetic after break in is a good idea on a rebuilt engine. Another thing you can do when rebuilding the engine is use low tension rings, the engine will last almost forever then. Speaking from experience, when I was working at the Ford dealership, one of the technicians had to put on a pair of new heads on a 5.4L V8. When he had the heads off, he told me to come and look at the cylinder walls. The engine had over 120,000 miles on it, and you could still see the crosshatches in the cylinder walls as plain as the day they were made. I'm a firm believer in low tension rings and synthetic oil. I'd only use both on a new engine, not a used runner. Another thing, if you're running higher oil pressure, what about going to a thinner oil? The Ford used 5W20, which is a little thin for an older engine, but 10W30 might work well in high oil pressure situations. Whattya think Walt?
    Any thing over 40 pounds in a Hudson, 48 to 56 will shorten the life of the oil pump gear. This is on the pressure engines, not the splashers. We now have a company that makes a new style pump gear and claims it will last longer. When pressure first came out in Hudsons, the oil pump had a cast iron gear and the cam gear would wear away. Then they went to a bronze gear that had a life of 40 to 45 thousand miles. This was duo to the oil in those days. Oil I use today saves on the gear wear, my gear went 75 thousand miles and I replaced it and was still good. Thinner oil at high pressure will not stop oil pump gear wear. Why do you think race cars use 50 or 60 weight oil? They run 10 pounds for every 10,000 RPM's and they turn 7 to 10,00. Walt.
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