'38 Hudson 112 -- restoration & photos
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I am looking for a head for a 112 motor. Please contact me if you know where one can be found.
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Dave, that is going to be a great looking car when finished.
I would like to know how you stripped the paint off the car. It looks like there are paint strips laying on the running board.
Thanks for sharing the pictures of your progress. Sorry I have no spare head.
Lee0 -
dave kastelic wrote:I am looking for a head for a 112 motor. Please contact me if you know where one can be found.
Hi Dave, Great looking car. What part of the country are you in? I may have an extra head, but shipping will be expensive.
Gene.0 -
"The Hudson 212 engine - I believe that is the standard engine for your 1938 Hudson 112 convertible- is pretty common, and the head from either the 212 or 175 cu in engines should fit without any issues."
The Hudson 112 series all used the 175 cid engine - (3 x 4-1/8 bore & stroke). It wasn't until 1941-1942 that the 212 was used in the "junior" (Series 10 and 20) models - as an option. Cars that were so equipped are identified by the letter "L" in the serial number.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Whew! That's gonna be a pretty car. Hey, Rick, that inner fender panel looks nearly identical to your '39 PU's.
What color is she gonna be when completed? How stock/modified? I assume from previous posts that the engine is going back stock?0 -
Yup Alex, you're right - According to the manual, there is no variation of the standard engine for the convertible.
On a side note, the Hudson Terraplane did come standard with the 212 engine.
However, for the purpose mentioned (finding head for his engine), the point was that they are interchangeable between the 175 and 212.
Right - I was merely pointing out that the 112 series used only the (anemic) 175 engine. Hudson's greatest engine it ain't!!!!
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Dave:
Where are you located? BTW, whats wrong with the head on your current engine?
I have a 212 head that I purchased for my 175 that I probably won't use since I found a 175 head to use instead.
The 212 head has already been milled and I would be able to let go for what I have in it plus shipping or maybe a trade of some sort. Gave $100 for the head and $50 to have it milled.
FYI, the 212 heads have larger combustion chambers than the 175... which is fine. If you use a 175 head you'll get an increase in compression and theoretically an improvement in performance.
Craig0 -
I wouldn't recommend a 212 head on a 175 motor. This would lower the compression ratio considerably, and this is the last thing you need with modern high octane fuel, as it would mean less performance, economy, and the likelihood of burnt valves. Also, I wouldn't rubbish the 175 motor either, they were quite a robust little engine, considering the bulk of the car they were hauling, and they were quite capable of a good turn of speed, even if it did take a while to achieve. The English Hudsons, which were taxed on horsepower, which was determined by bore size alone (R.A.C. rating), had an optional bore of 2-21/32" and a 5" stroke, giving a displacement of 166 c.i. These were geared down to 4.55: 1 standard, which gave them the same performance as the 3" bore, but with much less tax to pay. However of course their top speed was hampered, which was not the case with the Hudson 112. On English roads of the time however, speed was hardly a factor. Just a bit more useless information!0
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I believe that the head that Dave is looking for has the number "112" cast into it. It was rated at 6.50:1 compression. It definitely has a smaller combustion chamber than the standard 212 head.
Dave, I have one of these heads if you still need one.
Kevin C.0 -
I am located in Hickory, NC. The finish paint will be Mandalay Ivory just as it was in 1938. Thank all for your comments. We are still considering options on the motor. It appears the motor was switched out at some point in the past. The head is stamped "Terraplane". My understanding is the stamp should have the same # as the serial # and have 112 stamped. I can use the head that is on the motor now or replace it with a head with a 112 stamp but the fact is the motor # and the serial # STILL WOULD NOT MATCH. I am seeking advice from other HET Club members to determine what direction to go. I will continue to post pictures as we progress. Thank you for your comments on the inner fender. We did not maintain the same size of the original openings on the inner fenders but I think they still look good and have not changed the functionality to any extent. Please continue with your comments, they are very helpful.0
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Oaky, you will need to check the actual engine number to see what version you have. If the engine in the car has it's correct head, and ti says "Terraplane" only, it may be a 1936 model, but who knows what has taken place over period of 72 years. Check that number and be certain.0
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dave kastelic wrote:I am located in Hickory, NC. The finish paint will be Mandalay Ivory just as it was in 1938. Thank all for your comments. We are still considering options on the motor. It appears the motor was switched out at some point in the past. The head is stamped "Terraplane". My understanding is the stamp should have the same # as the serial # and have 112 stamped. I can use the head that is on the motor now or replace it with a head with a 112 stamp but the fact is the motor # and the serial # STILL WOULD NOT MATCH. I am seeking advice from other HET Club members to determine what direction to go. I will continue to post pictures as we progress. Thank you for your comments on the inner fender. We did not maintain the same size of the original openings on the inner fenders but I think they still look good and have not changed the functionality to any extent. Please continue with your comments, they are very helpful.
Dave:
If you're looking for a matching numbers vehicle the block would be my first concern. The block should have a serial number that matches the vehicle serial number... I'm not sure if the heads have a number that matches the block or vehicle. Maybe the motor was swapped or the head was changed. If the head is not the original or it's "wrong" just find a suitable replacement. Short of doing a concours restoration using replacement parts shouldn't be problem in my opinion.
Craig0 -
Thanks, Dave. Mandalay Ivory will be just beautiful on that car, very classy.
Rick-
Well, at least you might have a couple of years to find that inner fender panel? (If they are indeed identical). Last resort, it doesn't look like a very difficult piece to re-fab, if necessary. Have you checked with oldhudsons on replacements? He just might have a set hanging around the shop.0 -
Rick, This is a photo of my 1938 Hudson parts car that I am using to rebuild my Martz Roadster. I will be using various parts such as the floorboards, doors and possibly back fenders. Drop me a note at browniepetersen@readytek.net and let me know what you need and I will take some photo's for you to see if you can use them. I plan to disassemble the car early this summer and determine what exactly I will need. No hurry....0
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HotrodHR wrote:Dave:
"The block should have a serial number that matches the vehicle serial" number...
Craig
Hmmmmm - 1938. Block should have same serial number as vehicle. Well, maybe -- maybe not!!!
Prior to 1938 engine numbers and serial numbers were not the same; after 1938 they were (are supposed to be).
1938 Serial and motor numbers were identical after:
Models 80, 81, 82, 83 and 88 - 11630 up, except for 12000 to 12319 (don't ask - it's Hudson!!);
Models 84, 84, 87 - after 14126;
Model 89 (Hudson 112) - after 28566.
So if your '38 112 serial number is prior to 28566 engine number isn't going to match.
This info is available in my "General Information Handbook"
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
On top of the block, by the front exhaust port.0
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Thanks Kevin. If I decide to change the head I will give you a call.0
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RL, we are trying our best to keep the car and motor stock. If we modify anything it will either be a mistake or made out of ignorance. The grils on the inner fender were rusted pretty bad and the entire section was gone. We welded new metal on the lower section and ended up with slightly smaller grill openings. Do not believe this changed the function of the part to any large extent.0
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hudsontech wrote:Hmmmmm - 1938. Block should have same serial number as vehicle. Well, maybe -- maybe not!!!
Prior to 1938 engine numbers and serial numbers were not the same; after 1938 they were (are supposed to be).
1938 Serial and motor numbers were identical after:
Models 80, 81, 82, 83 and 88 - 11630 up, except for 12000 to 12319 (don't ask - it's Hudson!!);
Models 84, 84, 87 - after 14126;
Model 89 (Hudson 112) - after 28566.
So if your '38 112 serial number is prior to 28566 engine number isn't going to match.
This info is available in my "General Information Handbook"
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
You're right... my comment was meant to be general, that if he is looking for or wanting to do a "matching numbers" build that would be the first place to start, and as you mentioned there are no guarantees that they would match (from the manufacturer). During periods where model or procedures are changed one could expect this. Maybe the the numbers did match coming off the assembly line and now they don't due to engine change. Without having documentation there's no way to verify this.
My initial question was why he wanted or needed to change the head. After talking with Dave via PM a couple of times I found out that he has disassembled the motor that came in the car, has a spare motor and apparently the head(s) have the Terraplane script. He's mentioned replacing with a head with the 112 "stamp" I'm guessing for authenticity... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "112" doesn't really indicate (directly) anything about the motor just the vehicle model. So someone looking at the vehicle might wonder if the 112 represents something significant like displacement or horsepower... if I didn't know better I would make that type of assumption.
That said, I'm still not clear as to why he wanted to change heads...
Craig0 -
Dave: I have tried to acknowledge your PM. On the first attempt the screen went blank just before clicking on send. I do not know why the other two messages did not go through.
This seems to be the only way I can let you know I received it. Thanks for the information. Lee0 -
dave kastelic wrote:RL, we are trying our best to keep the car and motor stock. If we modify anything it will either be a mistake or made out of ignorance. The grils on the inner fender were rusted pretty bad and the entire section was gone. We welded new metal on the lower section and ended up with slightly smaller grill openings. Do not believe this changed the function of the part to any large extent.
Dave-
Impressive. Please keep us posted of your progress. The workings of the inner fender panel sounds familiar. Check out the following link:
http://classiccar.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=62&jfile=showthread.php&t=204420
This discussion has been closed.
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