Interesting story of about a Bugatti
Comments
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Part of the question of when is a car too far gone to restore? I would call this a major build....0
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Ok, anybody remember where that Great Lakes auto carrier, supposedly with a lot of Hudson's on board, went down????
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
:eek:Send it to BJ, they can get a six digit bid from a speculator. Arnie in Nevada0
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your not kidding.... a crosley fire truck going for 100 k ?????0
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After all these years, you would think that people would get the hint about the pitfalls of raising taxes!0
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When I hear the name Bugattii - this is always the first picture that comes to mind...0
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It occurred to me whilst pondering during a drive today:
I momentarily wondered which was better, a total basket case that had spent the better part of four decades upside down in a dry creek bed in Oklahoma, or a worse basket case that spent 70 years at the bottom of a lake.
Let me see . . . hmmm. . . .
Alex, I'll take total basket case upside down in a dry creek bed in Oklahoma for a whole hell of a lot less, please!!!
It's hard to imagine that someone truly believes they have a real FIND there. Somewhere in that article, it mentioned that they thought there was 20% salvageable parts there.
Really??!! Where? On the 40% of the car that's left? Let me see . . . maybe a couple of gauges, or a wheel to use as a pattern, or . . . nope, not much there, really.0 -
Reminds me of the Plymouth they had in the time capsule in Tulsa a couple years ago. When unearthed they discovered it had been underwater for many years. Believe there were plans to restore that one but havent heard anything more since.0
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The February issue of AUTO RESTORER had an article about the Tulsa Plymouth, including pictures.
BN0 -
Alex,
As a younger person on a vacation with my family along the north shore I was told of this event by a museum person. This means Lake Superior and it can preserve things, but it also means that the ship is more likely on the order of a boat carrying a smaller quantity of cars. Lake boats were the backbone of most transport at the time.
The vehicles in question were Essex automobiles and she said when they found them the sparkplug wires were all still in place. She was delighted when I knew about Essex and the Hudson Motor Car Company.
As far as recovery goes they attempted that and managed to drop the one car being raised when the had it about half way to the surface. I don't know if anyone has ever tried again.
Hudsonly
Drew Meyer0 -
In what year did the boat loaded with Hudsons sink?
Were they all Essex or were there some other models?
Lee0 -
Lee,
Alright some of what I said is wrong apparently. It seems this was when I was in high school and we went to Door County in Wisconsin. So it is Sturgeon Bay area not North Shore. Given all that I have spent some time running a search and I get one shipwreck that may be it but they do not mention Essex cars. The year is 1924. It says Nash, Kissel and Reynolds cars were on board. Given the mixed bag its possible that Essex cars are on board or that someone tagged the Essex under Nash mistakely because of future heritage.
Below is the information. I will renew my search tonight but firmly believe that this is the ship in question. Why hasn't anyone taken another car off the ship. Many of these sites have been designated historical sites and nothing is to be removed.
LAKELAND
Other names : built as CAMBRIA, renamed in 1910
Official no. : 126420
Type at loss : propeller, iron, package and automobile freighter
Build info : 1887, Globe Iron Works, Cleveland
Specs : 280x40x20, 1878g 1378n
Date of loss : 1924, Dec 4
Place of loss : off Sturgeon Bay, WI
Lake : Michigan
Type of loss : foundered
Loss of life : ? [a diver was lost on the wreck in 1999]
Carrying : new automobiles
Detail : She sprang a leak and foundered. Foul play (insurance fraud) was suspected, but was never proven.
1st vessel on lakes over 300' overall.
1st vessel on lakes with a triple-expansion engine.
Built as passenger/freighter, last configuration in 1919.
Lakeland (1887) A 2,425-ton iron steamer built by the Pittsburg Steamship Companyin Cleveland, Ohio, as the Cambria, she was renamed the Lakeland on 24 May 1910.On 3 December 1924, after departing Sturgeon Bay where she had waited out astorm, she began taking on water and sank in 210 feet of water 6 miles east of the canal entrance with a cargo of Nash, Kissel, and Reynolds automobiles. Today, she lies upright and largely intact with many of her automobiles intact in her hold.
Once again, I had a detailed conversation with the person at the museum and she stated that there were Essex cars aboard the steamer. The year is appropriate for Essex
Hudsonly,
Drew Meyer0 -
Rick,
I think the author of that book messed up. Check out this web site with photos of some cars still on the steamer, or the video. In the video one car appears have drum headlights and the tie bar is below the headlights as the 24 Essex, the hubs are similar to Essex hubs.
http://www.nordicdiver.com/lakeland.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TQsKLN9-U
Someone has to have the literature wrong. So far I have three people saying there are cars aboard the Lakeland where she rests. Since I am not a diver and haven't been there I can't say for sure. The key appears to be whether the Lakeland was downward bound for Chicago when she left Sturgeon bay or upward bound from Chicago. Downward bound she would be loaded, upward bound she would likely be empty.
Essexly
Drew Meyer0 -
Hi Everyone,
This gets very interesting to me.
1. The only statements regarding cars aboard the Lakeland I've found say Nash, Kissel, and Reynolds?.
2. Most records say Lakeland was downward bound for Chicago.
3. The Lakeland was leaking and hid from a storm in Sturgeon Bay, then set out again.
4. The Lakeland sank near Algoma 9 miles south of the Sturgeon Bay inlet.
5. If upward bound she would have been no where near Algoma.
6. Kissel was manufactured in Hartford, WI. Nash was manufactured in Kenosha, WI.
7. Downward bound her hold would not have contained Kissel or Nash product unless she was returning them to the factory.
8. Downward bound she would have had to contain cars from east of her location, Detroit is a possibilty.
9. She sank Dec 4, 1924, that means she was likely carrying 1924 model cars if they were Hudson car products. Hudson tied the car models to its fiscal year and for 1925 that would be Dec 1, 1924. It was likely longer than three days since the cars had been loaded if they were picked up in Detroit.
10. Some cars have steel disc wheels, likely not Essex.
11. Nash did use disc wheels.
12. One car appears to have double spares mounted in the rear, likely not Essex.
13. One car in the video has similarities to Essex.
14. The radiator profile, drum headlights, headlight tiebar, wheel hubs and fender are similar to Essex.
15. The car has a bumper, the Butler book does not show any. The front springs do not appear to extend even with the front wheels as on an Essex. The image of the front wheel shows something behind it, a brake drum I suspect. If so it can't be an Essex no front brakes until 1928.
16. I cannot find any information if anyone has inventoried the cars and their makes.
Nothing sure. If I can find anymore I will post it. I might try to reach the Door County Historical Society to see if anyone had ever checked the Lakeland bill of lading or inventoried the actual cars remaining in the hold or around the ship to determine the actual make.
Curiously Essexly
Drew Meyer0 -
Lee, Rick,
I called the Door County Maritime Museum today and they pulled the archive on the Lakeland.
The auto contents of the Lakeland are Kissel, Nash, and Rollin automobiles. No Hudson product, no Essex. Someone had it wrong years ago.
Rollin Motors Company Cleveland OH.
The Rollin Model G. Rollin White son of Thomas White (sewing machines) designed this car. Incorporated as Rollin Motors Company his design included 4 wheel braking. This car was produced from 1923 to 1926. Total production was about 6,000. With a peak of 3,660 cars in 1924. The average body was a touring. Due to the competition, most units were shipped to Asia and New Zealand, etc. The stiff competition in their price range limited sales and the company entered bakruptcy, Rollin Motors Company closed. There are only seven left. The last two pictures in the previous post appear to be a Rollin Model G.
Kissel Motor Car Company Hartford, WI.
In 1924 Kissel produced only 803 units. Work was in progress on the new straight eight for 1925.
Nash Motors Kenosha, WI.
Production vehicles carried six-cylinder engine and disc wheels. The seven passenger sedan sold for $2,190 in 1924 and weighed 3,700 pounds. During this year Nash built and sold 53,626 cars and 203 trucks. 1924 also marked the purchase by Nash Motors of a plant in Racine, Wis., where previously Mitchell automobiles had been built.
It has become fairly clear that the Lakeland made it as far as Kenosha and then apparently ran for Sturgeon Bay to hide from the storm. All documentation says she was downward bound for Chicago. The caption of the first photo says the Lakeland was loading cars in Clevland, Ohio the home Rollin Motors Company.
I'm tired of research for awhile.
Not Essexly but Hudsonly
Drew Meyer0 -
I thought I recalled an article in the WTN years ago, about some Hudsons or Essexes that fell off the deck of a Great Lakes Freighter in the 1920's, and I thought I saw photos of one of the cars that had been retrieved (in recent years). The car wasn't in very good shape. Does anyone recall seeing this?0
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Jon B wrote:I thought I recalled an article in the WTN years ago, about some Hudsons or Essexes that fell off the deck of a Great Lakes Freighter in the 1920's, and I thought I saw photos of one of the cars that had been retrieved (in recent years). The car wasn't in very good shape. Does anyone recall seeing this?
I recall reading this years ago but have no idea when.0
This discussion has been closed.
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