Replaced Head on the 41 and she won't start

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User]
edited November -1 in HUDSON
We finished putting the 175 six back together and attempted to start her with no luck... maybe someone might have some ideas on what might be the problem :confused:



Here's the situation...



At first we tried starting while the car was on jack stands up in the front, engine angled back (no problem starting like this before).



We've got good spark, fuel to carb, but no fuel to cylinders (plugs were dry). We could see valves moving through the spark plug holes and they worked fine before we reinstalled the head.



I noticed that I left off a vacuum hose fitting on the intake manifold that would have created an air leak and may have contributed to the lack of fuel. We installed the vacuum fitting, rechecked firing order, timing and all the other normal checks and tried again. Still no starting (or fuel to plugs). :(



Decided to pull the carb and discovered the intake was loaded up with fuel... good things she didn't fire. :eek:



Anyway, we soaked up the gas and scratched our heads wondering what the problem might be...



So we pulled the intake off, pulled the plugs, cranked over the engine and blew air threw the plug holes to ensure intake valves were opening. Blew out intake openings in block.



Everything checked out so we decided to check carb float, fuel bowl for trash and then reinstalled everything.



We took the car down off the jack stands to level the car and tried starting her. No luck getting her to fire up and still no fuel to the plugs.



The only thing we can think of is that for some reason we're not getting strong enough pull for the air/fuel to make it to the cylinders... She's loading up raw gas in the manifold from attempted starts (not flooding like a stuck carb needle and it was not as bad as earlier).



The only I can think of is that we have some serious intake manifold air leaks that are keeping it from pulling enough intake suction. We reused the intake gaskets (with sealer) both times. I forgot to order new intake gaskets... I'm pretty confident that we have a good seal....



My next step is to replace with new gaskets and try again.



So... any ideas out there? Other than bad intake gaskets what could be causing the problem?



Craig

Comments

  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Craig,

    Have you done a compression check on all cylinders?

    That will tell you a lot.....

    Jeff
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    We ran into a problem like this on a startup of a fresh engine. It was not cranking fast enough to pull fuel into cylinders, hence puddled fuel in intake but dry plugs. The "rebuilt starter" turned it over too slow . Sent starter back to rebuilder, now turns over and starts. A short 12 volt application [boost] may be all that it takes. Also another thing to check. do you have good spark out to plugs? Did you reset valve adjustment when you were doing the gasket replacement? Lou Cote :cool:
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    I'm not familiar with that early of a Hudson engine, so this may not apply.. Did you have to remove the distributor to pull the head? If so make sure you aren't set to fire on # 6 instead of #1.. If your timing is right, give it a quick boost from 12 volts as mentioned above.

    Good Luck
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    dynolou2 wrote:
    We ran into a problem like this on a startup of a fresh engine. It was not cranking fast enough to pull fuel into cylinders, hence puddled fuel in intake but dry plugs. The "rebuilt starter" turned it over too slow . Sent starter back to rebuilder, now turns over and starts. A short 12 volt application [boost] may be all that it takes. Also another thing to check. do you have good spark out to plugs? Did you reset valve adjustment when you were doing the gasket replacement? Lou Cote :cool:



    We have good spark at the plugs... we will check everything again. What you describe is exactly what's happening. Maybe we're not getting it to crank fast enough. I don't know if that would be the case since the motor ran before we had to change the head. We put on a "new" head that was milled and new head gasket. Followed all procedures and specs when putting her back together.



    No valve adjustments were made...



    So how do I go about boosting my starter with 12v?



    Craig
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    If your charger doees not have a 12volt slow/6volt boost setting like mine does use a 12 volt battery to the starter only .
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    A couple of possibilities:



    -I just pulled the intake manifold on mine and noticed a small sheetmetal plug(between a nickle and a quarter in size) on the outside of the manifold facing the fender. Mine has a hole corroded through it. I can't tell where it leads to but I assume it needs to be intact. Possibly leaking vacuum?



    -The maintenance manual states that there is supposed to be four (4) gaskets on the intake, then the heat shield, then two more gaskets, then the carb. I had a small block Ford that absolutely would not run without a 3/4 inch spacer between the manifold and the carb. Maybe your engine is just as ornery.



    Good luck and let us know how you make out.



    Bill
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    The plug you refer to Bill is a sand cast hole that is plugged with a cap when the manifold is completed for use.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    bill mccarthy wrote:
    A couple of possibilities:



    -I just pulled the intake manifold on mine and noticed a small sheetmetal plug(between a nickle and a quarter in size) on the outside of the manifold facing the fender. Mine has a hole corroded through it. I can't tell where it leads to but I assume it needs to be intact. Possibly leaking vacuum?



    -The maintenance manual states that there is supposed to be four (4) gaskets on the intake, then the heat shield, then two more gaskets, then the carb. I had a small block Ford that absolutely would not run without a 3/4 inch spacer between the manifold and the carb. Maybe your engine is just as ornery.



    Good luck and let us know how you make out.



    Bill





    Thanks Bill... she is ornery that's for sure...



    Craig
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Ken-

    Is it necessary to re-plug the hole or should I just leave it open?

    Bill
  • davegnh
    davegnh Expert Adviser
    I agree with all the suggestions, the easiest thing to do is probably a compression test. That will tell you where to start, no compression, no vacuum--
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    They had a reason for plugging the hole, plug it .
  • russmaas
    russmaas Senior Contributor
    Sound like you may have worn rings, and when you took the head off , you probably wipe down the cylinders. The oil in the cylinders was holding the compression. If you have less than 50 PSI it wont start. So start with compression as stated above.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    Sometimes a table spoon or so of oil in the cylinders will make a big difference.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    bill mccarthy wrote:
    Ken-
    Is it necessary to re-plug the hole or should I just leave it open?
    Bill

    Bill: Yes, remove the corroded cap and replace with a new one.
  • junkcarfann
    junkcarfann Expert Adviser
    Here's what I would do:



    1. Pull the plugs and squirt some motor oil in the cylinders, then spin the engine a few times and repeat the oil.



    2. Do a compression test.



    3. If you have compression, spray some starting fluid in the carb, as long as there is no fuel puddling.



    4. It should start, at least for a moment, if you have compression, spark, and the distributor is installed correctly, and timed correctly.



    Also, you said you milled the head. That would increase the compression ratio, and if you starter is weak to begin with, make it that much harder for the starter to spin the motor over, perhaps enough to cause all your problems.
  • tigermoth
    tigermoth Expert Adviser
    the engine will run if you have adequate spark delivered at the right time to a combustible mixture under pressure. make sure you have those things.

    do you have a vacuum gauge? if not, get one and tell us what vacuum readings you get while cranking. vacuum will give you an idea of induction system integrity and proper valve timing. continue to use good troubleshooting techniques validated with test equipment to determine what needs to be adjusted or replaced. regards, tom
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I will try and do the compression test hopefully one night this week... as far as the head is concerned, the milling was really resurfacing about .010 to .016 so I don't think the increase in compression would be significant



    Craig
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    SuperDave wrote:
    I'm not familiar with that early of a Hudson engine, so this may not apply.. Did you have to remove the distributor to pull the head? If so make sure you aren't set to fire on # 6 instead of #1.. If your timing is right, give it a quick boost from 12 volts as mentioned above.

    Good Luck



    This is an important question that you didn't answer......there is no way the car will start if the dist. is out as stated above.
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