Titles and bill of sale
Comments
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You can not get a registration with out a title , all states have titles . However , many old cars are sold with a BILL OF SALE only and it is then up to the buyer to apply for a LOST TITLE and then get a legal title by that process . . Check with PA. officials on your states process for this .0
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Pat,
The Hudson Trk that I recently restored came from NY with only an old Registration Card, which strange to me but was the NY Title back at that time. The Notary accepted it and Pa. DNV Processed with no problem.
However,
I tried obtaining Registration using an Out Of State Bill of Sale, that while Notorized, met a lot of DNV Rejection. I persued the possibility awhile finally talked to a DNV Supervisor to learn that I had to go to Court before a Judge, post $100 non refundable Fee, advised to have a Lawyer, (or do my own research)to provide all the documentation possible to present at a Court Hearing to prove the vehicle was really mine, then wait awhile for the Judge's Ruling... Bill of Sale can be done but very difficut and time consuming....0 -
Ol racer wrote:Pat,
The Hudson Trk that I recently restored came from NY with only an old Registration Card, which strange to me but was the NY Title back at that time. The Notary accepted it and Pa. DNV Processed with no problem.
However,
I tried obtaining Registration using an Out Of State Bill of Sale, that while Notorized, met a lot of DNV Rejection. I persued the possibility awhile finally talked to a DNV Supervisor to learn that I had to go to Court before a Judge, post $100 non refundable Fee, advised to have a Lawyer, (or do my own research)to provide all the documentation possible to present at a Court Hearing to prove the vehicle was really mine, then wait awhile for the Judge's Ruling... Bill of Sale can be done but very difficut and time consuming....
Thanks Chuck, a registration is available.
I tried to email you Thursday and the email was kicked back. Did you change you email address. If you did PM me. I needed it for the Western Reserve Chapter.0 -
No titles needed or available for old cars in NY. Since sometime in the 60s or 70s, can't remember. Registration form is not even necessary to register in NY. My 49 was long gone.
You might consider registering in NY, and then when they give you the registration, take it to PA or whereever. You will need antique or regular insurance proof to register it. Get a bill of sale, and you will need a rubbing of the SN to get it registered in NYS.
Antique ins will get you vintage plates, ie HX-xxxx or allow you to use old plates of the year of the car, provided the number is not used in any year. You can check that online at NYSDMV. You'll need a photo of both of the old plates unrestored. You can spiffy up the plates later.
Regular insurance will get you regular plates with no driving restrictions.0 -
Ol racer wrote:Pat,
The Hudson Trk that I recently restored came from NY with only an old Registration Card, which strange to me but was the NY Title back at that time. The Notary accepted it and Pa. DNV Processed with no problem.
However,
I tried obtaining Registration using an Out Of State Bill of Sale, that while Notorized, met a lot of DNV Rejection. I persued the possibility awhile finally talked to a DNV Supervisor to learn that I had to go to Court before a Judge, post $100 non refundable Fee, advised to have a Lawyer, (or do my own research)to provide all the documentation possible to present at a Court Hearing to prove the vehicle was really mine, then wait awhile for the Judge's Ruling... Bill of Sale can be done but very difficut and time consuming....
If you were an illegal alien in Los Angeles, you could just go down to the local street corner and buy a fake one. Ain't it great?0 -
37 Terraplane#2 wrote:You can not get a registration with out a title , all states have titles . However , many old cars are sold with a BILL OF SALE only and it is then up to the buyer to apply for a LOST TITLE and then get a legal title by that process . . Check with PA. officials on your states process for this .
Not true. Several states do not have titles. New York, Georgia, and Alabama being just three of them, there are several more that do not require titles for vehicles more than 10 or 20 years old, depending on the state.
A "LOST" title can only be applied for by the person whose name is ON the title - NO way can a buyer apply for a lost title if the car is not in their name. Think about it - if what you said were the case, all a person would have to do is get a VIN off of a car they liked, apply for a title, then go to the owner and say "give me my car, it is in my name now"...
Here is a link to EVERY single DMV/equivalent in the United States. It's to the California DMV, but there are links to ALL other state motor vehicle authorities listed here. Bookmark this: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/otherdmvs.htm0 -
SRCraftsman2 wrote:I am looking at another project car out of New York. Living in PA I am used to having a title but this vehicle is supposed to have only a registration. Does New york have titles or I am dealing with a bill of sale only?
NY does not issue titles for vehicles older than 1973, even now. I have registered mutiple vehicles with NY registrations only in other states with no issues. The DMV's know the other states rules and you shouldn't have any problems. There is a line on the back of the registration that needs to be signed by the seller.
Good luck!0 -
66patrick66 wrote:Not true. Several states do not have titles. New York, Georgia, and Alabama being just three of them, there are several more that do not require titles for vehicles more than 10 or 20 years old, depending on the state.
A "LOST" title can only be applied for by the person whose name is ON the title - NO way can a buyer apply for a lost title if the car is not in their name. Think about it - if what you said were the case, all a person would have to do is get a VIN off of a car they liked, apply for a title, then go to the owner and say "give me my car, it is in my name now"...
Here is a link to EVERY single DMV/equivalent in the United States. It's to the California DMV, but there are links to ALL other state motor vehicle authorities listed here. Bookmark this: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/otherdmvs.htm
NOT HARDLY . From all the posts it's clear that laws do and have changed over the years , online info does not cover all situations , I have in Indiana with a bill of sale applied for a lost title several times and got them . On one occasion a car was left in the garage of a house I bought by some friends of the former owner . NO BILL OF SALE , we had a justice of the peace system at the time, I went to him and he said give me $35 and I can get you a title . {court fees} The JP ordered , yes ordered the state of Indiana to give me a title . All the time it took was mailing things , came real quick .0 -
I know of a lady who signed over her registration some 40 years after her demise.0
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Uncle Josh wrote:I know of a lady who signed over her registration some 40 years after her demise.
This WAS a friendly discussion on the difference in obtaining state auto titles past and present . Snide remarks are uncalled for, best you check out past laws and procedures in the state of Indiana before you run off at the mouth .0 -
37 Terraplane#2 wrote:
This WAS a friendly discussion on the difference in obtaining state auto titles past and present . Snide remarks are uncalled for, best you check out past laws and procedures in the state of Indiana before you run off at the mouth .
Oops, didn't mean to offend anybody. Just trying to help with NYS laws and procedures based on experience registering a 36, 47, and 49, all without proper paperwork.
The incident actually happened when I reg my 36 Terrorplane. In retrospect, I should have trashed the old registration. That's where the rub-bing comes in.0 -
When I bought my 39 Hudson "Martz" Roadster out of Montana I wrote up a bill of sale and had the seller sign it. I brought the car home and went on a search for a SN. I found the original plate on the door sill and copied the number and wrote it on the bill of sale that I had. I had our local Highway Patrol (neighbor) look over what I had and he filled out a State inspection form and signed it. I went to the DMV and applied for a title. Two weeks later it showed up. I think a point here is that Utah is a State that requires you turn in a title to get a title. They are pretty strict about this policy; However, over the years car guys have addressed about every issue you can imagine with the DMV and Utah has established rules that meet about every situation. I have worked with the Director of the DMV on a few occasions to help guide policy but the key point is that our state will work with a car guy to make things work. I expect that every state would be fair and willing to have the same attitude?0
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Thanks for all the information.
This purchase is on shakey ground as the advertisement, pictures, and telephone conversations did not indicate the amount of structural unibody work that was still going to need to be done. especially after I crawled under it, and the inferred body parts and existing work was not quite accurate. I am not a welder but I probably would redo most of what was done.
But again thanks for the info as NY is only about 1.5 hours from me I may still purchse a project from that state.0 -
Maine is another that does not require a title on cars back past a certain age.
However, if you live in Maine and have a car you are selling to someone who lives in a state that requires a title, Maine will be more than happy to supply you with one for $50 (last I knew).
I actually "sold" a couple Hudsons that had no titles to a friend of mine who lived in Massachusetts. He "sold" me the cars and I got titles on each in Maine and "re-sold" the cars back to him. Convoluted, but worked.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
37 Terraplane#2 wrote:
NOT HARDLY . From all the posts it's clear that laws do and have changed over the years , online info does not cover all situations , I have in Indiana with a bill of sale applied for a lost title several times and got them . On one occasion a car was left in the garage of a house I bought by some friends of the former owner . NO BILL OF SALE , we had a justice of the peace system at the time, I went to him and he said give me $35 and I can get you a title . {court fees} The JP ordered , yes ordered the state of Indiana to give me a title . All the time it took was mailing things , came real quick .
What you did was a form of a bonded title. This is also legal in many states, and if you bothered to check out my link to all 50 states' DMVs, you'd found this to be so. I stand 100% by what I said. Each states' DMV is listed there. If one has questions that are not answered by that site, you contact the DMV/equivalent directly. Too easy.
You have a misconception of what constitutes a "lost title"...A LOST title is exactly that - a misplaced, lost, stolen, or mutilated title that the CURRENT, REGISTERED owner can only get. Also known as a DUPLICATE or REPLACEMENT title in some states.
Some states do allow the ability to get a car registered without initially having paperwork. As an example, OKlahoma has what is called a "Title 42", which was initially only for wrecking yards and such to be able to get titles for repo'd, unclaimed, or abandoned cars/trucks, but which has since allowed people to get titles on otherwise untitled vehicles. The process involves registered letters, ads in the paper, and about four weeks. this can be expedited by paying a title service anywhere from $100 to $150 to do the work for you. At the end, you receive paperwork that allows the new owner to register and title said vehicle, costing about $125 average additional costs.
Fifty states...fifty different sets of rules...that is why I linked to the Cali DMV and their link to the other 49 states. Word of mouth/anecdotal evidence is one thing, but I'm going to take the word of the state, because it trumps word-of-mouth.0
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