Intake question for the Gurus

RL Chilton
RL Chilton Administrator, Member
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I'm prepping a Twin-H intake manifold. After initial blasting was completed, I noticed the freeze plug passages were packed full of crud. This was surprising as this is an NOS manifold. After removing the six freeze plugs, it became apparent to me that this manifold had gotten some moisture in it sometime in the past, as the freeze plug passages were full of rusty, scaly crud. Anyway, I've now got them all cleaned out and connected now.

Additionally, after the initial blasting was done, I discovered a small pinhole in the central heat chamber that surfaced during the blasting process.

Two questions:

1. Is there anything else I should do with the freeze plug area before I put the new plugs in and seal this puppy up?

2. Can I weld that pinhole up with my MIG welder?

I had pictures for y'all, but I'm having trouble with the computer recognizing my card reader (it's always something, it seems).

Thanks for any help or advice-

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Russell , cast iron needs to be welded with NI-CAD rod . Use a small size so you don't burn thru and spread the weld out if the metal is thin there . BUD
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    That's what I was afraid of, I'm gonna have to take it out and have it done.
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    Be right or wrong I have used JB Weld for that problem
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Ol racer wrote:
    Be right or wrong I have used JB Weld for that problem

    I just bought some and I had thought of that . . . what were your results? Any problems develop over time?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Russell , what you need done is a very small job , cost should be small . Where the hole is and the work /time other problems caused by weld failure is not in my opinion worth trying short cuts . The exhaust gas is hot enough there to ignite gas in the intake passage if the hole is where it goes to it just when you don't want it to . BANGO , there goes a piston or maybe even the block . Have it repaired right . Cast iron is difficult , and needs to be done by someone that knows how to cool it down after repair . A person experienced with it will have it done in a few moments . BUD
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    RL Chilton wrote:
    I'm prepping a Twin-H intake manifold. After initial blasting was completed, I noticed the freeze plug passages were packed full of crud. This was surprising as this is an NOS manifold. After removing the six freeze plugs, it became apparent to me that this manifold had gotten some moisture in it sometime in the past, as the freeze plug passages were full of rusty, scaly crud. Anyway, I've now got them all cleaned out and connected now.

    Additionally, after the initial blasting was done, I discovered a small pinhole in the central heat chamber that surfaced during the blasting process.

    Two questions:

    1. Is there anything else I should do with the freeze plug area before I put the new plugs in and seal this puppy up?

    2. Can I weld that pinhole up with my MIG welder?

    I had pictures for y'all, but I'm having trouble with the computer recognizing my card reader (it's always something, it seems).

    Thanks for any help or advice-
    Russell, have it welded by a cast iron welder. Then when you get ready to use it, wash it out a dozen times because you should never of BEAD BLASTED it in the first place. If some stays in a corner and eventually goes into the engine, there goes your motor. Air cleaners and intake manifolds should never be bead or sand blasted. Walt.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    walt's garage-53 wrote:
    Russell, have it welded by a cast iron welder. Then when you get ready to use it, wash it out a dozen times because you should never of BEAD BLASTED it in the first place. If some stays in a corner and eventually goes into the engine, there goes your motor. Air cleaners and intake manifolds should never be bead or sand blasted. Walt.



    Walt,

    Have you ever found casting sand trapped in a new part? I have and it's frightening!:eek:
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    FYI

    I never had a problem with JB Weld on the intakes but I failed to mention its probably because I run headers on those Motors, so you should probably have it preheated & weled professionaly where they let it cool down in sand slowly afterwards.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Russell, JB weld is good for temps of up to about 1000-1200 degrees. Your manifold will likely get hotter than that. JB weld does not reccomend their product for any constant high heat repair so having it welded up is your only option.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    SuperDave wrote:
    Walt,

    Have you ever found casting sand trapped in a new part? I have and it's frightening!:eek:
    All used Hudson intake manifolds have had plenty of use, so there can be no sand trapped in them. But bead or sand blast is not the answer. Walt.
  • dougson
    dougson Senior Contributor
    My twin-H intake was packed with crud, rust flakes, and soot in the heat chambers nearest each end. I cleaned out what I could but had to sand blast the passages to completely remove residue. Sand blasting revealed a hair-line crack in the wall separating the two heat passages but not extending to the intake passages. I was advisedd to leave it alone because welding could make it worse. I am using headers so I do not need the chamber anyway. I would think that sand blasting the intake passages would be the best way to remove scale that could harm the engine. After blasting and some grinding , air would remove any loose debris. After all heads and intakes are ground all the time for port matching and porting. The twin-H intake's passages are really finely cast (smooth radii at each transition) and I can not find any spot where debris could accumulate.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    dougson wrote:
    My twin-H intake was packed with crud, rust flakes, and soot in the heat chambers nearest each end. I cleaned out what I could but had to sand blast the passages to completely remove residue. Sand blasting revealed a hair-line crack in the wall separating the two heat passages but not extending to the intake passages. I was advisedd to leave it alone because welding could make it worse. I am using headers so I do not need the chamber anyway. I would think that sand blasting the intake passages would be the best way to remove scale that could harm the engine. After blasting and some grinding , air would remove any loose debris. After all heads and intakes are ground all the time for port matching and porting. The twin-H intake's passages are really finely cast (smooth radii at each transition) and I can not find any spot where debris could accumulate.



    In my opinion, There really isn't any other way to thoroughly clean a manifold without using some "blasting". But you are correct. A very meticulous cleaning after the blasting is essential. The foundry used sand to cast the part and hopefully cleaned the part before assembly. I did find a "clot" in a new small block Chevrolet two BBL intake a few years ago. But only because I sand blasted the part myself to be sure it was clean. I alway solvent flush and run brushes through every part in an engine. The chance of sand getting into the oil from an intake manifold is very remote, but one grain that settles on an exhaust valve seat will melt and turn to glass. That valve is going to have a very short life!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Interesting banter...



    Brings my thinking back to an article I read about how Smoky Y used to clean and polish the interior passages of OEM hudson manifolds. If memory is serving me correct, he hooked up a sand slurry mixture to the manifold and pumped it through and through the manifold until the manifold was free of casting slag and polished smooth.



    I believe this process is still used by the local roundy roundy folks on manifolds.



    Just a thought.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    WildWasp wrote:
    Interesting banter...



    Brings my thinking back to an article I read about how Smoky Y used to clean and polish the interior passages of OEM hudson manifolds. If memory is serving me correct, he hooked up a sand slurry mixture to the manifold and pumped it through and through the manifold until the manifold was free of casting slag and polished smooth.



    I believe this process is still used by the local roundy roundy folks on manifolds.



    Just a thought.



    Smokies method didn't actually polish the manifold but did enlarge the ports a lot. It left the rough cast appearance to get past the tech inspectors. I saw a display at a racing trade show a few years ago where they forced an abrasive clay like stuff through the manifolds and it sure did a nice porting job! And it DID make the runners smooth. They still have to clean up after..:)
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Interesting thoughts as usual, from everyone.

    I've had success with blasting brand-X manifolds in the past, but was curious as to what Hudnuts might have to offer concerning marque-specific thoughts.

    Regardless, I did blast the manifold and wanted to de-burr afterward, but, surprisingly, the inside of the intake runners is very clean and smooth. Other than polishing, (which I didn't have much interest), I really couldn't add any grinding work that would improve the flow. Another fine example of Hudson's craftsmanship. For the record, of course this manifold was completely cleaned afterward using a combination of forced air, forced water, etc. It is certainly not outside my knowledge to understand the inherent consequences when sandblasting.

    Additionally, the pinhole has been welded, the intake was primed and painted with high heat paint. New freeze plugs were installed, mating surfaces have been prepped. I had toyed with the idea of powder-coating the intake, but differing opinions with my powder-coater changed my mind. Paint can be re-furbished, re-painted, etc. and powder coating is more permanent (also helps to hold in heat, which might prove to be detrimental).

    SO, intake and exhaust are now complete except gaskets. Will post pics soon. Gotta make some heat shields now. Was going to try some out of aluminum, as it will be a better heat sink than stainless.

    I've recently come to the realization that I've got about 15 months until the OK Nat'l., when I expect to show the car there. All that means is that I've got to get crackin' as the last 6 months have been so tied up with work, that little progress has been made with this restoration. $$$$ might hold me up, but it won't be for the lack of trying . . . that's the plan, anyway.
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Gettin' there!!:

    index.php?option=com_community&view=photos&task=showimage&tmpl=component&imgid=3085&maxW=744&maxH=446

    index.php?option=com_community&view=photos&task=showimage&tmpl=component&imgid=3086&maxW=744&maxH=446
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    If you are using a dual action fuel pump the balance tube is on backwards. if not, then your setup is a shorter route for to the wiper motor. If you are using electric wipers and no power brakes, just block off the equalizer all together.
  • dougson
    dougson Senior Contributor
    Intake looks great! The carbs look great as well. Did you use the carb paint from Eastwood? I'm finishing the rebuild of my carbs and so far no extra parts.........;)
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    SuperDave-

    The balance tube is just on for the photo and not permanently bolted on, I still have to cut another gasket, yet. But, I am planning on using an electric motor and single fuel pump.

    Dougson-

    Thanks, and yes.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lookin good Russell. You guys do know Randy Maas sells a tool to balance those dual carbs , Right ? BUD
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    37 Terraplane#2 wrote:
    Lookin good Russell. You guys do know Randy Maas sells a tool to balance those dual carbs , Right ? BUD

    Been there, done that. I've got duals on the sedan, as well.
  • onerare39
    onerare39 Expert Adviser, Member
    Russell,



    Congratulations on the fine work, and posting pictures!



    John
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