Synthetic Oil 10/30

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User]
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I'm about to drop the oil pan in the 41 C6S and wanted to know if there will be a problem running 10/30 synthetic after cleaning out the pan? I talked to some people and the said it might create leaks because it will clean out all of the gunk in the block. Any thoughts? Thanks

Comments

  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    I think they're referring to the detergent additives in the oil, though I imaging it's impossible to get a NON-detergent synthetic oil. The general consensus seems to be that the "gung" all ends up draining into the pan (and dipper tray) so if that's cleaned up, and you've sort of wiped out the inside of the block with a gasoline soaked rag, you can probably put in any old oil you'd like to. There won't be any "gunk" to be "detergented out" anymore.



    The latest debate is whether to put in zinc additives or use oils with large concentrations of ZDDP in them, or whether the lack of zink hurts our camshaft lobes or not. The "detergent debate" is soooo "yesterday"! (LOL!)
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Here we go again! Nobody to my knowledge has done a study or experiment on whether synthetic oils are suitable for a splash-fed motor. Until then I recommend that you err on the side of caution and stick to regular oils. Modern oils that are designed for high-load items like o.h.cams etc are designed to be "stickier" so that they cling to the surfaces, hence the worry that they may not as freely disperse as encessary in a splash fed motor. The choice is yours of course, but I have done half a million miles in my 1928 Essex using mainly multi-grade 20W-50 conventional oils and never had a lubrication problem, nor suffered extreme wear of any sort.
  • GrimGreaser
    GrimGreaser Senior Contributor
    ZINC!



    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=zinc
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    I tried synthetic oil in 2 different older cars. Both cars developed oil leaks soon after. Coinsident or not, I was upset about it. I went back to using regular 10-40 or 20-50 oil in my cars.



    Detergent oil. It was hard to find any detergent oil the last time I looked, several years ago. Before putting it in the car I read the label. I was suprised when I read "not to be use in engines". So I used it in the chain oiler of my chain saw.



    Just a couple experiences in times past. Lee
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Ok, so I get the conventional oil no problem. Now I am wondering why 10-40? Why 20-50 as its so thick. I am using plain old 30w in my 212 and it seems good.

    Need input.......



    Jeff
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    20W-50 is a good all-round grade to use in warm climates, but 15W-40 may be better if you are in a real cold area. 30 grade oil is not suitable for prolonged usage in hot temperatures and severe driving conditions, as it thins out too much. Briefly, the viscosity stabilisers in modern oils are beneficial in maintaining a relative consistency in all temperatures. Oils thin out when hot, and viscosity improvers stop this happening. Basically a 20W-50 oil is as thin as 50 eight oil when hot, and as thick as 20 weight when cold.
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    So...

    Wouldnt a 20-50 be thinner than a 30w when it gets hot? I dont drive much in cold weather or winter, mostly summer and we dont get much hotter than 90 in the summer. And thats only a few days here in Washington~~!

    Jeff
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    30 weight gets REAL thin as it heats up, so the answer is Yes, and No! Yes, 20W-50 will be thinner than COLD 30 weight, but it will be a lot thicker than HOT 30 oil.
  • 53jetman
    53jetman Senior Contributor
    In my 25 years of selling motor oil and lubricants, I understood that in the case of 20W-50, the oil was a viscosity of 20W, but built a film strength under opterating temp of an SAE 50. I don't beleive the oil actually got thicker but the film strength was equal to an SAE 50.
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    53jetman wrote:
    In my 25 years of selling motor oil and lubricants, I understood that in the case of 20W-50, the oil was a viscosity of 20W, but built a film strength under opterating temp of an SAE 50. I don't beleive the oil actually got thicker but the film strength was equal to an SAE 50.



    Stated very well. That is my understanding about mutigrade oils as well. Lee
  • mdwhit
    mdwhit Expert Adviser
    I always thought that the magic in making oils behave as different weights while at varying temptures had to due with the polymers that were put in the oil. So after this came up on the forum, I thought I would do a little research on the web. Here's part of what I found:



    Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. This page from the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ offers the following very interesting description of how the polymers work:



    At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.



    You can read more at: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/question1641.htm



    Michael
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Which is exactly what I said.
  • Nevada Hudson
    Nevada Hudson Senior Contributor
    Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:
    Which is exactly what I said.



    Geoff, This is a different subject, but thanks for the great article on clutches in the latest WTN. After George Schmidt passed away, I thought that we would no longer see technical articles on clutches again. You stepped up and filled the void!

    Thanks!
  • Sarah Young
    Sarah Young Senior Contributor
    It's my understanding that old engines require ZDDP for the camshafts. Current day engines don't need it because they use roller tappets and because the ZDDP shortens the life of catalytic converters. It's also hearsay that engines without oil filters should use non-detergent oil because it allows impurities to get to the bottom of the drip pan as opposed to being suspended in the oil and going through engine, but if you change your oil like you should than it's a moot point, isn't it?



    I picked up the Oil Change Jug of SAE 10W-30 and a pint of zinc oil additive for the Jet's recent oil change. I figured anything would be better than putting any more miles on with the 5-year old black sludge that was in it. Will this be okay until its next oil change?



    Oil on the garage floor? Because my aim was off. :)



    The real question is: If you want to use a non-synthetic oil that has high levels of zinc in it, where do you find it?
  • hudsonguy
    hudsonguy Senior Contributor
    Sarah,



    Per recommendations from this forum, I've been using Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil in my 262 engine. It's loaded with ZDDP.



    http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:
    30 weight gets REAL thin as it heats up, so the answer is Yes, and No! Yes, 20W-50 will be thinner than COLD 30 weight, but it will be a lot thicker than HOT 30 oil.



    Ok that makes sense, thanks Geoff!

    So based on my driving, which is very little cold or winter, here in the Pacific Northwet (west) :p what would be the best multi vis? 10-30, 15-40, or 20-50?

    Thanks!

    Jeff
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    It depends on the state of your engine. An older engine needs 20W-50 for general driving, but if yours has not much mileage up then a 15W-40 is probably the best.
  • jjbubaboy
    jjbubaboy Senior Contributor
    Looks like I will give the 20-50 a shot.

    Thanks!

    Jeff
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