Flat head Ford engines compared to Hudson

JasonNC
JasonNC Expert Adviser
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I'm a little tired of my Hudson starter wearing out the teeth on my flywheel. My mechanic pointed out a company in Hemmings that makes a starter that engages from the front for the old flathead Ford engines. From what I've seen, the Ford starter looks a lot like its Hudson counterpart. Anybody know if they are interchangeable?

Jason

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    JasonNC wrote:
    I'm a little tired of my Hudson starter wearing out the teeth on my flywheel. My mechanic pointed out a company in Hemmings that makes a starter that engages from the front for the old flathead Ford engines. From what I've seen, the Ford starter looks a lot like its Hudson counterpart. Anybody know if they are interchangeable?

    Jason
    Need machine work and a the correct drive, 9 tooth and 10 pitch. Walt.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Jason

    Assuming your Flywheel ring gear is serviceable and the flywheel is flat... there are several aftermarket adapters that will allow you to put a late model mini starter into a Hudson. You might start your hunt with Dany Spring the owner of KAGAP

    Cheers
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    You could be opening up a can of worms here. Front engaging starters have the flywheel ring gear teeth chamfered at the front. Without the chamfer you are going to have problems with point-to-point jams of the pinion and ring gear. I would tryn and discover what is causing your starter to mash the ring gear first. What model car are we talking about? Are you aware that the centre line of the starter is offset from the bolts? It is possible to have the starter mounted 180 deg. out, which affects the depth mesh of the pinion.
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:
    You could be opening up a can of worms here. Front engaging starters have the flywheel ring gear teeth chamfered at the front. Without the chamfer you are going to have problems with point-to-point jams of the pinion and ring gear. I would tryn and discover what is causing your starter to mash the ring gear first. What model car are we talking about? Are you aware that the centre line of the starter is offset from the bolts? It is possible to have the starter mounted 180 deg. out, which affects the depth mesh of the pinion.



    I was beginning to worry about opening a can a worms myself. I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by the center line being offest from the bolts. I do know that I can put the starter on and it mesh properly for a few cranks, and then start grinding on the ring gear. It's as if it's shifting out of position. I'm wondering if there is a way to install the starter so that it does not shift after it's attached to the bell housing.

    Jason
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    I forgot to mention that it's a 48 Commodore Six.

    Jason
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Jason, have you put a new Bendix drive on that starter? I had a similar problem on my Hornet a while back, and it was simply a worn Bendix drive pinion. Replacing the drive unit fixed it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Are you using the special bolts that Hudson used or regular 3/8" bolts? The original bolts/studs had a larger diameter portion where it went thru the bell housing. Regular bolts would let the starter mesh too tightly with the ring gear and cause problems like you're having.
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    Yes Park I put a new bendix drive on both the starter and the spare and both are doing the same thing. Steve, I purchased the bolts that you mentioned from Dave Kostanek several years ago and put them in. Should I try replacing them again?

    Jason
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    I had a problem with an engine I had on a test stand. Didn't have a bell housing to keep the starter mounting rigid.Chewed up a new ring gear..dang.. I placed a large fender washer under the bolt head on the front of the starter next to the block. A little experimental grinding to get the right size and it acted like a brace to keep the starter motor from flexing towards the block and misaligning the drive with the ring gear. Holds the starter where it should be. Chevy uses a similar brace on it's V8's .It worked so good I put one on my 49 as a safety measure..
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    If the bolts/ studs fit snugly in the bell housing they should be O.K.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    JasonNC wrote:
    I was beginning to worry about opening a can a worms myself. I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by the center line being offest from the bolts. I do know that I can put the starter on and it mesh properly for a few cranks, and then start grinding on the ring gear. It's as if it's shifting out of position. I'm wondering if there is a way to install the starter so that it does not shift after it's attached to the bell housing.

    Jason



    It is possible to have the starter mounted 180 deg out, in which case the pinion is too far away from the ring gear. This was the case on my Hornet when I first got it, and the starter was very noisy, and chipping away the edge of the ring gear teeth. I re-mounted it the correct way round, which brings the pinion slightly closer the ring gear, and it is now meshing properly and much quieter. As has been said, the mounting studs are special, with a locating collar. but must be fitted before installing the clutch housing. The holes in the starter plate are off centre from the armature shaft.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Guess it's also possible that in the past someone's had the starter apart and reassembled it with the front, [mounting] plate turned 180 deg.
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    Steve E wrote:
    Guess it's also possible that in the past someone's had the starter apart and reassembled it with the front, [mounting] plate turned 180 deg.



    Both starters were taken apart and converted to 12 volts. Is it a matter of taking off the front and turning the front plate 180 degrees which I can handle or should I have the starter repair guy do it
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    JasonNC wrote:
    Both starters were taken apart and converted to 12 volts. Is it a matter of taking off the front and turning the front plate 180 degrees which I can handle or should I have the starter repair guy do it



    When mine came back from the rebuilder I had to rotate the front 180 degrees.



    Lee
  • coverton
    coverton Expert Adviser
    JUst rebuilt one of mine and after all the "grinding " for a few secs took it off and eyeballed it with a st edge and it was 180 out as mentioned-worked fine after re mounting it with the shaft and bendix at the closer psn.AS Mr Clark suggests - take a close look
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    I wish someone had told me to let the starter guy fix the starter. One of the starters I took apart from the front and now I can't get the brushes back in place and on the other, the screws at the front plate have broken off in the holes. Anyone have a starter for sale?

    Jason
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Jason Check with Hudzilla(aka Lance Walker) he is in Charlotte
    Bob
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    SuperDave wrote:
    I had a problem with an engine I had on a test stand. Didn't have a bell housing to keep the starter mounting rigid.Chewed up a new ring gear..dang.. I placed a large fender washer under the bolt head on the front of the starter next to the block. A little experimental grinding to get the right size and it acted like a brace to keep the starter motor from flexing towards the block and misaligning the drive with the ring gear. Holds the starter where it should be. Chevy uses a similar brace on it's V8's .It worked so good I put one on my 49 as a safety measure..



    Dave,

    I'm having the front plate turned 180 degrees and I think that the use of the fender washer would help me too. I'm not clear about what you mean by "experimental grinding" to get the right size. What are you grinding and where?

    Jason
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    Here is a picture of my "band-aid". D
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