starter bendix questions

schillaz
schillaz Expert Adviser
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Is there a difference between the starter bendix on a 49 to a 51?

The reason im asking is i took a starter off a 51 and i installed it on a 49, and i haven't tried it yet but it doesn't seem like the gear on the bendix is big enough to touch the flywheel when
engaged?

thanks for any info.

**the photo is what my bendix looks like that im trying to use on a 49? will it work?
***both cars are manual trans

Comments

  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    There is no difference. Are you aware that the mounting holes are off-centre? The starter must be mounted so that the pinion is in the closer position to the flywheel.
  • schillaz
    schillaz Expert Adviser
    so are you saying when i took the starter apart to replace the brushes, when i put it back together i put the endplate on backwards?

    I guess im gonna have to pull the starter and look at how that end plate is bolted in and see if i can flip it.

    does that sound right?
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    edited December 2010
    schillaz wrote:
    so are you saying when i took the starter apart to replace the brushes, when i put it back together i put the endplate on backwards?

    I guess im gonna have to pull the starter and look at how that end plate is bolted in and see if i can flip it.

    does that sound right?

    Thats exactly what I had to do when I got my starter back from the rebuilder for my PU. Had to turn the end plate 180 degrees.

    Lee O'Dell
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Not backwards, but half a turn out most likely. the end plate has equidistant screws. Depending on how fussy you are, you can just turn the starter around half a turn, but this will put the cable terminal at the bottom instead of the top.
  • schillaz
    schillaz Expert Adviser
    edited December 2010
    ok i will pull the starter and rotate it 180 deg. just to see if my pinion lines up. Im pretty sure it will it sounds like im not the only one to do this..haha

    then i will pull the plate and put the thing on the right way this time so my terminal is upward again.

    Im glad to hear i didnt order the wrong bendix.

    thanks for all help.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Yep that was it.........thanks again
  • LanceB
    LanceB Senior Contributor
    OK everyone here is my question on this subject.

    While starting my truck yesterday morning I broke my starter drive, bendix. Yhe gear broke and the drive came apart. This had happened a couple years ago and I replaced it. I am running a 1952 308 in my truck converted to 12V. I had put a 12v solenoid on the started. Why would this happen?

    Thanks in advance
    Lance
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This is happening because the Bendix drive is being 'slammed' into the flywheel every time you start the engine. They'll hold up for a while, but eventually the drive unit is smashed to bits, as you have found out. The Hydromatic starters usually get the nose broken off the casting where the rear armature bushing is located. Best way to cure it is to have your starter rewound to a 12 volt unit. You may be able to use a starter off a 56 Hornet but I think you'll have to do a couple of things to it. One is to change the end plate on the drive side. I don't think the 56 has the offset for the mounting bolts, and two, change the Bendix drive and use the one off a 6 volt starter as the 12 volt ones are usually of a smaller diameter.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Because your are doubling the torque. To quote the old adage "there is no such thing as a free lunch". These starters were designed to operate on 6 volts. Doubling the voltage is going to double the strain on the mechanism, so whilst the engine may start quicker, it is at the cost of reliability. These Bendix drives are a brutal mechanism at the best of times. The old super six system up to 1929 was much better, in that they moved the pinion into mesh, and then closed the switch Having said all that, it may pay to check the ignition timing. If too far advanced this will overload the starter if tends to kick back.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I don't know the particulars of what it takes internaly to do it. But the starter / Generator man I use rewires them for about 9-volts. It seems to make a good compromise. You may talk to your guy about it,
    Roger
  • GrimGreaser
    GrimGreaser Senior Contributor
    Kinda like this:



    I'm not sure how this happened though: :huh:



    Nothing else broke in the second picture, just the spring retainer.
  • LanceB
    LanceB Senior Contributor
    Thats a nasty one there. No, I do not have that housing around mine. The gear came apart. I haven't gone under the truck to gather all the pieces yet. Going to stop over at NAPA to order a new one today, maybe two...
  • GrimGreaser
    GrimGreaser Senior Contributor
    I should clarify, those were seperate incidents. The casting broke first, then the 'new' starters bendix broke several weeks later. They both happend during rather frantic and angry attempts to start the car in the cold while horribly flooded. I believe I have that issue mostly worked out now.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    That 'housing in the first pic is the starter from a hydramatic equipped car. The starter drive just kinda hangs out in space on a manual transmission car. The broken housing is what happens on a car equipped with an automatic transmission on 12 volts.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    edited December 2010
    Here are the numbers for 12v starter field windings for the stepdown and Hash cars. Your local starter-generator shop should be able to get these and install them. Hudson starter number in paren's, followed by field coils Ace part nr.
    48–50 All except 50 Pacemaker (MCL-6006) ST-49 12V
    50 Pacemaker (MZ-4159) ST-48 12V
    51–55 std trans 8-cyl, 262 and 308 engines (MCH-6109) ST-33-X 12V
    51–54 auto trans, all except Jet (MCH-6204) ST-33-X 12V
    55 auto trans Hornet 6 (MCH-6306) ST-33-X 12V
    53–55 std trans 202 and 232 engines (MZ-4167) ST-48 12V
    53–55 auto trans 202 engines (MZ-4172) ST-48 12V
  • Lee ODell
    Lee ODell Senior Contributor
    edited December 2010
    Thanks for all the information Park. That will be a big help. And save some starter breakage.

    You deserve some Karma for this. Here's some.

    Lee O'Dell.
  • LanceB
    LanceB Senior Contributor
    Ditto what Lee said.

    Thanks Park
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    edited December 2010
    Gee ... thanks, guys. And for those still "Dancing with the Splashers", the Ace part numbers are:

    41–47 Hudson 6-cyl (MZ-4092) ST-48 12V
    41–47 Hudson 8-cyl (MAB-4100) ST-31 12V
  • LanceB
    LanceB Senior Contributor
    OK, just crawled under to pick up the pieces and found out that I did not break the starter gear this time, I broke the spring retainer. I think its time to rewind the starter.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Talk to a starter man about making you a 9 volt starter. You still get good power on 12 volts but it does'nt "WANG" out so hard,
    Roger
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Or go back to 6 volts, like it was designed for!
  • 53jetman
    53jetman Senior Contributor
    Have to agree with you Geoff! If these guys would clean up their grounds and use the proper gage leads on their batteries and starters they wouldn't have to worry about breaking up the few remaining good starter cores that we have available!
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Well you are of course correct. I have never had one of mine that would not work as designed. I was just pointing out a service our local guy offers for peaple who insist on 12-volt cars.
    Roger
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