Twin-Vortex Aluminum Head

super651
super651 Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
The statement below was sent to EMPIRE MOTORS 13451 Montana Ave.
El Paso Texas 79936-0616
915-856 9607
info@empiremotorsinc.com

February 7,2011

To Whom It May Concern:

Due to Irreconcilable differences in opinion regarding manufacturing,marketing and general business practices we are hereby DISASSOCIATING our relationship with Empire Motors and its principal agent Valor Blazer.

We will not endorse nor oppose any efforts of Empire Motors and its principal agent Valor Blazer to produce and market the Twin-Vortex aluminum cylinder head for Hudson built Motors and designed by Rudy Bennett and Charles Fellows.
Rudy Bennett
Chuck Fellows

Comments

  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    Ken,you sure did and we lost a lot:(
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Well maybe you could take the blueprints and find a good machine shop in the Midwest, around Indianapolis or something.
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    Thanks Aaron but, when we started on this project he Blazer said that he would keep the Pattern and they would not be for sale. And after looking in the ware house he has lots of them from all the projects that he has built.
    Everyone please look at this Rip-Off- Report.
    www.ripoffreport.com/motor-vehicle/valor-blazer-empire-motors-kee-47797.htm
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    What happened exactly? I thought the heads were being produced and all was well?
  • HudMotCarCo
    HudMotCarCo Expert Adviser
    Sorry that this venture did not work out as you had hoped. This experience reminded me of a comment made by an elderly woman to a psychologist who was giving a seminar on human behavior. Getting the presenters attention she said that, “I believe in the moreso theory” and sat down. Unsuccessfully racking his brain to recall this theory the psychologist asked her to elaborate. She replied, “If you are a jerk when you are young you will be moreso when you get old.” Seems that this rings true about Empire and their agent.

    Bill
  • MikeWA
    MikeWA Senior Contributor
    super651 wrote:
    Thanks Aaron but, when we started on this project he Blazer said that he would keep the Pattern and they would not be for sale. And after looking in the ware house he has lots of them from all the projects that he has built.
    Everyone please look at this Rip-Off- Report.
    www.ripoffreport.com/motor-vehicle/valor-blazer-empire-motors-kee-47797.htm

    The link comes up "file not found".

    Of course, everyone wants the gory details, and its certainly up to you, whether you "air the dirty laundry"- but if you're worried about a defamation lawsuit, remember as we say in the legal biz, "Truth is a complete defense to slander."

    There was someone trying to get enough customers for a "first run" of 5 heads- hope none of them got hosed. . .
  • wano1949
    wano1949 Senior Contributor
    Type in ripoffreport.com on Google then when Ripoffs site comes up,type in his name in their search space.
    It will list two reports by others he has conned in the past.
  • Roger Harmon
    Roger Harmon Expert Adviser
    Mike (WA) wrote:
    super651 wrote:
    Thanks Aaron but, when we started on this project he Blazer said that he would keep the Pattern and they would not be for sale. And after looking in the ware house he has lots of them from all the projects that he has built.
    Everyone please look at this Rip-Off- Report.
    www.ripoffreport.com/motor-vehicle/valor-blazer-empire-motors-kee-47797.htm

    The link comes up "file not found".

    Of course, everyone wants the gory details, and its certainly up to you, whether you "air the dirty laundry"- but if you're worried about a defamation lawsuit, remember as we say in the legal biz, "Truth is a complete defense to slander."

    There was someone trying to get enough customers for a "first run" of 5 heads- hope none of them got hosed. . .

    -Me too.

    R/ Roger.
  • 50C8DAN
    50C8DAN Senior Contributor
    Don’t feel too bad, a bunch of us in the Studebaker Drivers Club several years ago put up $400 each to make new intake manifolds designed by Ted Harbit, of Studebaker drag race fame. The guy has yet to deliver more than one sample to my knowledge. Ted has refunded most of the money but I have not asked for mine back. Ted worked really hard on this project and the guy is an outright thief, located in Indianapolis and goes by the name Bulldog castings.

    If anyone needs a good casting house to do this I do know one that works with small items, Eck Casting up in WI. Known them for many years and they are a quality outfit.
  • brumac
    brumac Expert Adviser
    I just received my new WTN and find it interesting that Empire Motors has an ad on page 42 for the cyl head, estimating 185 HP. Wonder if Randy has run it on the dyno yet?
    Bruce
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    brumac, Dont believe it. It has not been tested by Randy.
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    edited March 2011
    FYI

    Rudy Bennett & Chuck Fellows designed the new Hudson Twin Vortex Aluminum Cylinder Head and since apparently the Machine Shop/Foundry reneged on their agreement, I wonder if B&F could take their design to a 'reputable foundry' to be produced.

    However, having lost their initial investment alomg with potential legal fees to do so would be a major deterent, however maybe others could become Investors in the production of those new Aluminum Heads.

    If those new Heads could be quality produced timely they would sell because of the unique internal & external design. Consequently, Valor and/or Empire's negative public Record now exposed, they probably couldnt sell the few heads they produced...

    Its a shame to let production fade since development for a new Hudson cylinder Head designed with a lot of 'thought and experience'is a rare....

    However I dont know the whole story if heads will continue to be produced, made gifferenty, maybe inferiorly, or just discontinued. However. I wouldnt buy one now anyway after the Reports I read.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    edited March 2011
    I was wondering if the design of the head ( and I am almost sure it would be ) would be considered INTELECTUAL PROPERTY, and EMPIRE MTRS could be sued for infringment? May Not get your ,money back but could prevent them from making anymore and may even result in You getting anything they have already produced..
    Just Wondering
    Bob Hickson
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    I would like to hear about the dyno results firstly. If the head is good, then another foundry can be found surely. If not, best to improve the design.

    Sad to hear about this, it seems there is much truth in the saying "leopards don't change their spots".
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    edited March 2011
    FYI

    I believe Chuck & Rudy recenty 'road tested' their new Head under equal conditions with a Stock Head and recorded definite performance gain. However, with the future production of the Head uncertain, only they would need to elborate on their findings.

    Additionally, I feel regardless if the new B & F Head is suitable for all out Racing or not, Chuck & Rudy are to be commended for going 'above & beyond' on their passion for Hudson to design then try manufacture a better aluminum Head than they felt was currently available ...
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    Many Thanks to all who have shown interest and given us encouragement to move on and try to find someone else to produce the VORTEX head but,at this time we will not get involved in that.
    This project took its toll on us Emotionally,Physically and Financially to the point that I will not try it again but,may help someone else.
    We knew some of the problems that Empire Motors had been envolved in with Valor Blazer in the past but,we wanted to give him a chance to clear his name so we took the big jump. We shook hands and agreed that Ghuck and Me would get 100 dollars per head sold.to try to recoop the 4000.00 each to get started,we also agreed to be open and honest with each other. As time went by we visited the plant every week to check on the progress and to help with the cores as this was the only head that was built from the ground up. (they only coped other heads and changed them a bit) One day we asked the name of the Foundry and location and that was the start of hiding things and also the start of trust brake down with Blazer. From then on it was very hard to visit him and talk about the head project
    We cant go in to detail about every thing that went wrong but we pulled out when we asked him to tell every one his real name Blazer, and Not Ray as he would tell people that Ray was his name.
    It all fell apart at that meet with him so, Blazer if you are reading this as we know you do sometimes dont cheat or Lie to the Fine Hudson folks and Remember that 8000.00 that you owe Ckuck and Myself when you collect the money from our many friends in this great club of ours. Rudy and Chuck
  • TwinH
    TwinH Senior Contributor
    Sux! I was really looking forward to this coming to fruition. At this point,I
    wouldn't touch one of those heads with a ten foot pole.But hey, what goes around
    comes around... eventually.
  • Kdancy
    Kdancy Senior Contributor
    Guess I'll chime in here,
    At least 7+ heads have been pre-paid for. Supposedly everything is at the foundry (where ever thats at, he has told me on more than one occasion that it's in California but won't tell me the location) -- just waiting for 15 cast heads to be shipped back from the foundry for final machine work. Ray or Blazer or whatever his name, has said it will take 6 weeks to get them from the foundry.
    He says he wants to produce the 7X exhaust manifold, dual exhaust adapter and the twin intake (that Rudy and Chuck were working on) as well.
    I hope all turns out well and he makes things right with everyone. If so, there is some money to be made here. If not, forget it.
  • faustmb
    faustmb Senior Contributor
    Prior to reading any of this, I sent him info on recasting a water pump. He told me 25 of these heads are sold...

    I had high hopes for this venture as well, but will definately not pursue it with Empire "Rsy".
  • Roger Harmon
    Roger Harmon Expert Adviser
    Well, I for one am still hoping the first 6 heads get produced!!

    Some have already been delivered and I think I'm next in line. I have not heard of anyone who is driving with one yet. I still have my fingers crossed to have mine installed in time to drive to the Nationals this year.

    R/ Roger.
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    Roger, I have 2300 miles on the second T.V. head that was manufactured and,so far No leaks of any kind with the head.
    If you are using on a 308 engine ,try to use the BEST gasket if you can and torque to 75 foot lbs if,using 1/2 inch bolts or studs.
    Hudsonly Rudy
    Hope you get the head very soon.
  • Roger Harmon
    Roger Harmon Expert Adviser
    super651 wrote:
    Roger, I have 2300 miles on the second T.V. head that was manufactured and,so far No leaks of any kind with the head.
    If you are using on a 308 engine ,try to use the BEST gasket if you can and torque to 75 foot lbs if,using 1/2 inch bolts or studs.
    Hudsonly Rudy
    Hope you get the head very soon.

    Thanks Rudy. It's going on a 262 with 7/16" bolts, but I have faith. If it doesn't arrive soon plan "B" is 'Singh' grooves on the 232 head I'm currently running. Either way I'll document the before-and-after for the group here.

    R/ Roger.
  • ivanz62
    ivanz62 Expert Adviser
    Just wanted those still following this cylinder head project to know that the "bulk" order for heads placed last January (2011) is being filled with parts that look OK. I received mine about ten days ago. When I paid in advance for this, I knew it was a gamble with a person of bad reputation. I know many feel that supporting this guy was a bad choice. But having the heads available at all seemed like a win for Hudson owners. So I went for it. Now the head can be approved on its merits. I would say that paying up front is a bad idea. And waiting a year aftre one orders is unacceptable. Empire has the patterns and has demonstrated they can deliver a part (thanks to Rudy and Chuck who got screwed). They are not going to get their money back. I hope they can think of the money they lost as a "subsidy" going into a good thing for high performance minded Hudson owners. Randy Maas dyno is happening soon, he tells me, to really check the improvement in the design.

    My advice: If you want a high performance option in an aluminum head, make a deal based on COD payment when the head arrives and make that clear at the onset. Empire will have to find resources to make the things like any other manufacturing business--not make them with money from deposits.
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    Thanks Ivan, We are pleased that the heads are being sent to the ones that paid up front, We are glad to have a hand in a product that we feel will benefit all Hudson Owners.
    Rudy and Chuck
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    edited February 2012
    Rudy and Chuck:
    Thanks for your comments and info concerning the heads at the National last year. Hope ya'll are well and enjoying life. Thanks, Bob P.
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