rotor play and dist removal- update- it's running!
hoggyrubber
Expert Adviser
i have finally finished on the extra stuff i had to do and am trying to start up the 52 308 engine after trying last week. i don't have a 6 volt timing light so i have not been able to check timing to a tee. i turn the engine to where rotor is pointing at #1 and it looks like the large mark is close on flywheel. i have changed points, condenser, plugs, plug wires, coil, valves and cleaned valve seats. has good compression and i double checked the valve adjustment today.
i am just trying to start on stand with starting fluid and it acts like it wants to but won't quite fire. i was reluctant to adgust timing because i figured it was prob running where it was but it's been years! my two problems/ concerns are:
1. the rotor has prob a 5 or 10 degree free play. i have seen chevy dist that the cam gear pin was wollered out and did this but are these supposed to have any play?
2. the dist won't budge!. on the rear there isa bolt that is in a circular slot i asume this is the adjustment range. there is another bolt in the front and a thin sheet plat under it. is this the hold down? i remove both bolts and the dist housing won't budge. is something else holding it or is it just rusted in place?
on a side note the dist may be one tooth off because #1 is not pointing strate up as in manual wiring diagram and the adjustment is slid all the way advanced on the slot. anybody have any suggestions on what i can try. thanks
i am just trying to start on stand with starting fluid and it acts like it wants to but won't quite fire. i was reluctant to adgust timing because i figured it was prob running where it was but it's been years! my two problems/ concerns are:
1. the rotor has prob a 5 or 10 degree free play. i have seen chevy dist that the cam gear pin was wollered out and did this but are these supposed to have any play?
2. the dist won't budge!. on the rear there isa bolt that is in a circular slot i asume this is the adjustment range. there is another bolt in the front and a thin sheet plat under it. is this the hold down? i remove both bolts and the dist housing won't budge. is something else holding it or is it just rusted in place?
on a side note the dist may be one tooth off because #1 is not pointing strate up as in manual wiring diagram and the adjustment is slid all the way advanced on the slot. anybody have any suggestions on what i can try. thanks
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Comments
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i forgot to mention i used one of those cheap spark testers and it lit up at the plug like it's getting fire. i have read sometimes the new condensers are bad. also tried hooking up my 12 volt timing light to a extra 12 volt battery just for power and clipped the clip on #1 wire but it didn't do anything, so my timing light may have gave up the ghost. maybe i need to try it on my 63 chevy to see if it still works.
i hate to give up, call uncle, and get professional help but maybe someone who works on old flathead tractors could at least help me get it started. i doubt any regular shop would touch this. besides they would have to come here to my garage. i also called all the springfield, mo people in the het regestry to see if any of them had a mechanic who might give it a whurl, to no avail.0 -
With the bolt out of the 'adjustment slot' and the primary wire and vacuum lines disconnected, you should be able to pull the distributor straight up and out. The camshaft drives the oil pump thru a gear and the oil pump drives the distributor thru an offset tongue and slot arraingement. If there's a lot of slop in the dist. it may be a worn oil pump gear but you might just be working the mechanical advance in the dist. Get some penetrating oil, WD-40, Liquid Wrench, Kroil or whatever and start soaking the base of the dist. tap upwards on the dist body with a wooden mallet. It'll probably take a few days to loosen up but just keep working with it. If you try to use brute force you'll just wind up breaking something so be gentle with it! As far as your timing light, it should work the way you explained that you hooked it up, but you may need to run a ground wire between the battery and the engine block . Good luck.0
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i hear you on being gentle, i will do it. i don't think it was just the mechanical advance, so it may be a worn oil pump gear. recon it will run ok like this? i just need to take my time and rule out the timing, as far as starting, i guess. i have a real problem on getting focused on one thing and not being able to think about anything else. i was just excited about starting this thing up.0
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You need to be a little more accurate than "rotor pointing at No. 1". The rotor turns clockwise, so you need to have the timing mark exactly against the long mark on the flywheel, hold the rotor anti-clockwise, and the points should be just opening (with the rotor pointing to No. 1 terminal). This will be your initial setting for starting, and you can fine-tune it after you have it running. Good luck,
Geoff0 -
thank you geoff, i checked it today and yes the timing is off. the points are just starting to close at tdc. the timing is retarded too far. the dist looks to be one tooth off toward rear of engine, and it's advanced as far in the adjustable slot as far as it can go. so i will be working on getting the dist freed up so i can move it over. thank you both for your knowledge. hope it works after this!0
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the distributer only goes in one way that is, if you pull it it will only go back in oriented exactly as it is now. the oil pump can go in a multitude of orientations and that is what controls the position of where 1 is and it really doesn't matter where that ends up but if you want it to be like the book it is the oil pump that needs to jump a tooth.
did you try retarding it further and reindexing the plug wires? not that you shouldn't free up the distbibutor0 -
i got it free and i now see you guys must have had a good laugh about it being off one tooth! just a slot drive at the bottom. took it out, cleaned it off, put it back in, set it up and still no go! maybe i am not getting good enough spark? i took off a plug wire and held it away from the head and no spark. it may have just been enough to light up my cheapo spark testor light but not hot enough. i read somewher the starter might be hoggin the juce and not leaving enough for coil. maybe my new coil or condenser is no good?0
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ok, this morning i hooked up a different spark tester and the ignition circut and turned over by hand and it sparked right at tcd mark! maybe if it spun faster by hooking up a 12 volt battery just for starter? maybe hook up a seperate 6 volt battery just for ignition and a 12 volt for starter? i don't know i am at a loss and am pretty frustrated. i will enclose a few pictures and see if anyone can tell what i am doing wrong. i guess i should look at the bright side at least i can adjust the timing now the dist is free.0
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No one's trying to pull a fast one or get a laugh on you here, to advance or retard the timing one tooth, you have to pull the oil pump off and advance or retard the gear on it one tooth. This will advance or retard the dist one tooth. Make sure the brass gear isn't worn too bad. If it looks like you could shave with it , then break down and get a new one 'cause it's gonna fail pretty quick!when you move the oil pump gear in elation to the cam you can see how it will affect the dist timing.0
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You Should not need a 12v battery, But you need to make sure that your 6v battery is strong enough. I had what I thought was a good 650cca Battery from Auto Zone in my '54 Hornet and had troubles starting and it would sometimes not start, especially when hot.
I went to NAPA and got a new battery, 900cca, Now I have no more problems. 6v worked for years and worked well. Just keep everything Bright and Tight. Make sure your ground is good and clean and tight.
Bob Hickson0 -
Do not try to spin motor with 12 volts as this will burn out the points and kill the condenser. Like all say, make sure your battery is fully charged. Walt.0
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Consider moving your ground wire from the block down to the starter bolt that holds the starter to the plate. And as others have mentioned, clean the ends of the terminals of each wire(all of them), I've used wire brushes, emory cloth, sandpaper, get the grease and oil off first. Good luck, your on the right track, Bob0
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well i did a little work today did a compression check on 5 and 6 and it was low, like around 50lbs. i did a leak down test on #1 and it was about 70% or 65% leak. mainly in the crank case. i cleaned it out so i may need to put some oil in each cyl so it will seal better- this was one suggestion and i think i may try it. didn't have much of a cyl ridge so i hope the rings aren't too worn.
thank you all for your suggestions. i didn't think anyone was laughing at me but i had a good laugh at myself. i am not going to give up yet. thanks again0 -
DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID it dryes cyl walls put oil in plug hole spin it put plugs backin use gas, if pump looks like its been off then mess with it but its more then likly its been right there for last 50 years0
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Could be you've got some stuck rings. Try changing oil a couple of times and add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase and fuel tank, pretty amazing stuff, it may do the trick for you, if not not a lot of time or money expended!0
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tried putting the oil in and it fired right up! thanks to everyone for their help! i can now stop stressing out about it. thanks again!0
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ITS ALIVE!!! Congrats Hoggyrubber!0
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Another blow to the CO2 layer! Global warming advances another notch!0
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well i thought i would bring this old thread back up from the dead. i got the 308 in a while back and today i fired it up and drove it! if anyone has seen my troubles i had to replace 2 pistons and new rings to this engine a while back. i was thinking i would have to pull start it today but i cranked it over and it fired right up! good oil pressure and settled into a perfect idle! i took her for a short drive up the street. i was pretty stoked! big thanks to everyone on the forum for all the help the last couple of years, but it's not like i'm done or anything. :evil: i did drive it without the pass fender and hood.0
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hoggyrubber wrote:well i thought i would bring this old thread back up from the dead. i got the 308 in a while back and today i fired it up and drove it! if anyone has seen my troubles i had to replace 2 pistons and new rings to this engine a while back. i was thinking i would have to pull start it today but i cranked it over and it fired right up! good oil pressure and settled into a perfect idle! i took her for a short drive up the street. i was pretty stoked! big thanks to everyone on the forum for all the help the last couple of years, but it's not like i'm done or anything. :evil: i did drive it without the pass fender and hood.
Isn't that just the greatest fun - to get the old girl started and take it for a short drive, even it it is up and down the street. I did that (finally) with a 49 C6ClCpe that I had. For several years it sat in my driveway while I tried to get time, and money, to work on it. Finally, one day a great friend of mine stopped by and kicked me, literally, in the behind and said lets give it a try. We got it started and rolling. Unfortunately I had to sell it shortly after - that's another story.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0
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