Hudson "Woody" Junker
Comments
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I've never seen the following in Hudson Literature before, but I got a "new" book recently, titled, "American Motors Family Album". The book is a series of period pictures, 4 per page, that chronicle American Motors through the date of the book, which is 1969.
There is a picture of a '41 Hudson Woody. The caption reads, "1941 HUDSON Station Wagon-- This model, available in either a six or eight-cylinder engine, was mounted on a 121-inch wheelbase."0 -
RL Chilton wrote:I've never seen the following in Hudson Literature before, but I got a "new" book recently, titled, "American Motors Family Album". The book is a series of period pictures, 4 per page, that chronicle American Motors through the date of the book, which is 1969.
There is a picture of a '41 Hudson Woody. The caption reads, "1941 HUDSON Station Wagon-- This model, available in either a six or eight-cylinder engine, was mounted on a 121-inch wheelbase."
That's one of the better Hudson books - if you need pictures. In fact it was the American Motors Family Album that was the force behind my General Information Handbook. That started out as a Hudson Family Album and growed from there into what is online today.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
GREAT NEWS GENTLEMEN!
Tonight I used an orbital sander on the areas where the serial number was most expected to be. The passenger side rear most top angle of the frame and the rear axle shroud, just above the rear shock connection, below the brake line. I was successful!
On the frame, I found the following number: "I36734" [The "I" might be a "D" or a "1", but I'm opting for the "I". One of you might have a better thought on the matter?]
On the shroud, I found "36734". [The "I" was not apparant]
Now - can anyone take this information and run with it?
BW0 -
I was afraid you were going to run into that. Briefly, if the number is 136734, or even 36734 it won't tell us much. All serial numbers from 1935 thru 1951 began with -101.
Certainly the number you found is within the range of 1942 (ending number was 41232). Which is not to say that all numbers were used - in the case of 1942 due to the curtailing of production in Feb. 1942 to do war work. There were 5,396 passenger cars produced and only 67 commercial models. That figure is significant as station wagons were considered commercial vehicles.
Of course that goes by the board if your remains have an 8 cylinder engine - that, most likely, could only have been by special order since, as pointed out earlier only wagon produced in '42 appears to have been a six cylinder model.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Alex - The production figures you give above were those produced during calendar year 1942. 1942 model production most likely began somewhere during the Oct. 1941 calendar month. Has the actual 1942 units produced in 1941 ever been determined? This is just food for thought! ! !
Jerry0 -
53jetman wrote:Alex - The production figures you give above were those produced during calendar year 1942. 1942 model production most likely began somewhere during the Oct. 1941 calendar month. Has the actual 1942 units produced in 1941 ever been determined? This is just food for thought! ! !
Jerry
Actually, Jerry, the figues I have are not production figures - they are shippment figures. Actual production figures prior to 1946 have not surfaced in the nearly 40 years I've been digging. This is not to say that somebody, somewhere, isn't sitting on early production figures. At one time there were no known production figures between 1946 and 1957 - they finally showed up and are in my General Info Handbook. A copy of that is in the online library @ http://hetclub.org/burr/lithomepage.htm - under "Other Hudson - Essex - Terraplane Literature" at the top of the page.
If you take 1942 shippment figures and divide the total by 4.5 months of production you come up with around 1200 cars a month. So we're looking at maybe 1800 cars produced between Jan. 1 and Feb 14, 1942. Ball park figures and not entirely accurate. But you work with what you got.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
It is my opinion that Hudson used two accounting systems for cars built - one is the shipping figures which are from calendar dates, ie October to October, but the actual production figures were kept from Jan thru Dec, thus overlapping. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Since Hudson car production ended in mid-Feb (14th comes to mind) I would say that very few cars were built in the 1942 calander year.0 -
Knowing the vin of the Bob Weber Hudson Woody, can you venture a guess as to the year and month that it might have been produced?
Knowing the serial numbers that have surfaced on the frame and rear axle shroud of that vehicle, what would be the number that "should be" on the I8 motor block of that Hudson - if it was to be proved original to the vehicle?
Also - would the motor block numbers be of the same light stampings that I already found, or would they be somehow different?0 -
Bill - that would be impossible to do because Hudson didn't build the body. The chassis might have been one of the 1st '42s but then would have been sent off to Cantrell or whoever built the body where it may have taken weeks or longer to construct the body.
How did this process work? Did Cantrell order a certain # of Hudson chassis & then build some wagons in anticipation of selling them? Were they only built when a dealer put in an order for one? I doubt if anyone knows.
Railton would buy chassis sometimes at the end of the model run as he could get a better price on them from Hudson. Then Railton would do some of the special things they did to modify the chassis, etc., then hope for orders whence the chassis would be sent off to body builders of which there were several they used.
Perhaps your '42 was built on a '41 chassis?
Interesting things to contemplate.0 -
The more I read these posts the less I know...:P0
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OldHudson - you do bring up some interesting thoughts. Hudson supplied a chassis and running gear, Cantrell built the body. So the next step is to wonder did the body carry a Hudson ID plate on the right front door post - or ??????????? If a Hudson ID plate was used, as is probable, they must have sent the ID plate with the chassis & drive train.
That brings us to another wall - As you say it may have been a 1941 chassis, etc, that this wagon was built on. The motor number won't help - it doesn't carry the model number. 1941 serial numbers started out at, as I pointed out earlier, at -101.
So I think we're stuck here with this.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Alex, this is just a guess on my part about the body tag. The "A"-Post is part of the cowl, meaning part of the metalwork of the car. The "wood" portion begins at the front, or leading edge of the door. My assumption is that Hudson would have provided a body tag attached to the passenger A-post, as they did on all of their cars.
Of course, bentmetal would need to verify this for us.0 -
I don't think we are stuck at all. The one thing easily done, is to determine if it is a late 8 or early eight. If it is late, end of conversation. If it is early, then continue to entertain the idea. But taking the time to look at the bottom rear of the engine will at least determine if it warrants further discussion.0
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I don't see what knowing if the vehicle has a late, or early, model in line 8 cylinder motor has to do with anything? Since the motor is an 8, and nobody has ever heard of a 1942 Hudson woody having an 8, what difference would it make? In either case, early 8 or late 8, someone will no doubt step forward and say that someone swapped out the 6 cylinder motor it probably originally had, for an 8?
As for it being an easy task to note which kind of 8 cylinder motor it is, being that the car rests on the ground and the underside can't be seen unless the whole car is raised or a tunnel is excavated under the vehicle, I do not agree! I welcome anyone who would like to come here and perform either method of investigation.
BW0 -
RL Chilton wrote:Alex, this is just a guess on my part about the body tag. The "A"-Post is part of the cowl, meaning part of the metalwork of the car. The "wood" portion begins at the front, or leading edge of the door. My assumption is that Hudson would have provided a body tag attached to the passenger A-post, as they did on all of their cars.
Of course, bentmetal would need to verify this for us.
I'd have to say, upon peaceful contemplation in the "library", that you are correct, RL
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
I asked this earlier in the string, but got no reply?
Since the serial number which I found on two places on the frame and rear axle shroud is 36734, would the number on the engine block be the same (proving it is the original motor), and would the number on the engine block be stamped into the block using the same stamps used elsewhere on this vehicle or be raised letters or something else?
BW0 -
Yes, same number, stamped into the block. Just like the frame numbers were. That's what you want, numbers matching.:)Bill Weber wrote:I asked this earlier in the string, but got no reply?
Since the serial number which I found on two places on the frame and rear axle shroud is 36734, would the number on the engine block be the same (proving it is the original motor), and would the number on the engine block be stamped into the block using the same stamps used elsewhere on this vehicle or be raised letters or something else?
BW
You're going to have to go over there with a screw driver to loosen up the debris. Then something to get the dirt out of there. Paint brush, dust buster, portable air tank, whatever it takes. So you can get to the numbers. I believe "Marconi" gave a good discription of exactly where the number is.0 -
At the risk of becoming obnoxious I will repeat, again, that just the numbers are NOT going to tell you the year!!!!
36734 is the serial number, and the serial number only. The only place that is going to contain model info is the missing ID plate.
Again, I will repeat - all serial numbers for all models began with -101 from 1935 thru 1951. The model number prefaced the serial number, ie (1942) 22-101, 24-101, etc. The only place this prefix appears, to the best of my 40 years reseach knowledge, is on the ID plate on the right front door post.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Isn't the question - "Is the motor original to the vehicle?"
Isn't that what everybody wants to know?
Don't we already know that it's a 1942 Hudson woody?
Isn't that what everyone already says it is?
Isn't the physical appearance enough to tell you the year?
It would be a fine bit of information to have the door post plate, but it is missing. So is all the wood that made up the body of the vehicle, but it's still a woody, just the same?
You know the saying - "if it walks like a duck.........etc."0 -
hudsontech wrote:At the risk of becoming obnoxious I will repeat, again, that just the numbers are NOT going to tell you the year!!!!
It's a 1942.
36734 is the serial number, and the serial number only. The only place that is going to contain model info is the missing ID plate.
It's a woody and still has trim to show model.
Again, I will repeat - all serial numbers for all models began with -101 from 1935 thru 1951. The model number prefaced the serial number, ie (1942) 22-101, 24-101, etc. The only place this prefix appears, to the best of my 40 years reseach knowledge, is on the ID plate on the right front door post.
As Mr. Weber said early on, the ID plate is missing. Maybe melted in the fire? It's not needed. He, and WE, just need to know if the engine matches the frame. That's all that matters. Not if the engine is a 1942. But if that car was born with that engine.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
hudsontech wrote:
36734 is the serial number, and the serial number only. The only place that is going to contain model info is the missing ID plate.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
Not sure about the frame markings but sometimes the engine serial number does contain the model prefix. I know that is not consitant in stepdown production (think it may have disapeared for a period when they quit for going back to 101) and i do not know for earlier. I have three number maching cars, a 48 8, a 50 262 and a 54 308 all carrying the model prefix.0 -
Bill Weber wrote:Isn't the question - "Is the motor original to the vehicle?"
Isn't that what everybody wants to know?
Don't we already know that it's a 1942 Hudson woody?
Isn't that what everyone already says it is?
Isn't the physical appearance enough to tell you the year?
It would be a fine bit of information to have the door post plate, but it is missing. So is all the wood that made up the body of the vehicle, but it's still a woody, just the same?
You know the saying - "if it walks like a duck.........etc."
Mr. Weber-
Yes, I think we are all agreed! Your car is a 1942 Hudson Woody, Super Series.
Only question left is, did that engine come with that car? If it did, then it is the only 8-cylinder Woody that anyone has ever heard of. Only way to tell, is if the number on the block matches the number on the frame (since the door post tag is MIA). Since the car is "down in the dirt", the riddle will probably have to stay a riddle until the car is sold and moved.0 -
2 questions:
1. Did all Eights in 42 have the small headlight doors with vertical bars below? That may be a tipoff that this was a six.
2. Is there a story how the rear seat survived the fire and the years?0 -
That rear seat isn't from the Hudson!0
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Bill Weber wrote:That rear seat isn't from the Hudson!
It looks as though it is. That was the style of seats that were in the Woody's. They were very utilitarian and plain. Like bus seats.0 -
Yas, like the rest of us, you're still confused, but at a higher level, and about more important things.SamJ wrote:The more I read these posts the less I know...:P0 -
I'd love to see someone step up and bring this thing into daylight. Its a very cool piece of history.
Bill- any idea of asking price? It's hard to price, rare as can be but mostly only rough parts and patterns left.
PS - I'm glad you decided to post this on here and give this car a chance to be complete once more.0 -
Yes, my intentions are to sell the vehicle. Hopefully this fall before the snow flies, but as with everything that is a rarity, or one of a kind, the value is buyer/seller. There are no standards to go by. There are no previous sales to go on - at least none that I know about, or even similar situations to base value on. My initial thoughts are that even though the car is in poor shape, it's rarity gives it significant value.
My thoughts are that it is more likely that a collector/restorer will come forth and want it for his collection and be willing and able to do the restoration himself or have the ability to pay someone else to do the restoration for him. I doubt that anyone will want to buy the car as an investment and then pay untold money to fix it up given the unknown value of the restoration when finished, or even if he could recover his total investment?
Thus - what do we have here?
We have a 1942 Hudson super series woody - rare in it's own right, which might be super rare if it has an original in line 8 cylinder motor.
There are two distinct values which this car could have. One, if it was originally a six cylinder woody, and one if it was originally an eight cylinder woody.
In either case, looking at the same vehicle, it has two value numbers to consider.
I'm not sure just how to sell the vehicle? Any suggestions?
BTW - I'm still considering the easiest way for me to attempt to discover the motor block number - given that I have no help or daylight hours during which to work. I'd like to try jacking the vehicle up at four points; enough to be able to slip under the front end and find that number.
Would the gentleman who called me today please call again. I couldn't call you back because you didn't leave your number?0 -
To tell if it is an early 8 or late 8 from under the hood?,look at how the water pump is mounted. Is the water outlet from the block going to the lower radiator neck, part of the water pump or its own separate housing?. Are there 2 bolts that bolt the water pump housing to the front of the block or is the water pump bolted directly to the engine. This can be done by opening the hood and taking a quick glance,not too difficult. The adapter in front with 2 bolts into the block and the water pump bolts to the housing, tells you it is period correct. Ironing board or a flare block?. Has the exhaust pipe coming from the exhaust manifold in front have any noticeable welding or modifications? 6 vs 8 , does it have an 8 cylinder radiator,or what might be left from one. Has the radiator tray in front of the radiator been modified for the 8 cylinder engine. if it is missing??,maybe wasn't put back in when someone changed the engine. Where does the factory fuel line-[steel] ,come to on the frame and is the factory female fuel nut in place. If it is a factory 8 clylinder,it should also have a special radiator mounting bracket at the bottom or the rad. , ? ,easily seen by lifting the hood. hope this helps confuse you somemore. CG0
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Sell it on Ebay, a world market. I bought a one off Jet Convertible on Ebay a few years ago.0
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frank spring wrote:Sell it on Ebay, a world market. I bought a one off Jet Convertible on Ebay a few years ago.
That's what I was thinking. You jumped on that pretty quick if I remember correctly, I was glad to see that car come up for sale finally.0
This discussion has been closed.
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