1952 Hornet
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I purchased '52 Hornet and would appreciate learning the following:
On CA. 1956 issued pink slip car title (engine or I.D. #) and registration both have SF8112 and smae number also on Twin-H block. CWC309112 on head along with Power Dome. However when checking plate inside passenger front door, it has model 7B and serial #169536...Is the 169536 amount of Hornet's manufactured, when I went to DMV today they didn't know?
Thanks,
Ray
On CA. 1956 issued pink slip car title (engine or I.D. #) and registration both have SF8112 and smae number also on Twin-H block. CWC309112 on head along with Power Dome. However when checking plate inside passenger front door, it has model 7B and serial #169536...Is the 169536 amount of Hornet's manufactured, when I went to DMV today they didn't know?
Thanks,
Ray
0
Comments
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The 7B 169536 is the VIN number, if the number you are referring to is on the "triangular" shaped plate on the passenger door frame, between the hinges.
My best guess is that block is not original to the car, but after than, I have no other information to offer. I hope this gets you somewhere!
BesT
Rick0 -
Hey can you post a picture of the engine and the serial number on the block. The only time you find letters in a engine serial number is when the engine has been replaced by the dealer. Hudson sent the engines to the dealer and the dealer stamped the serial number on. Be nice if you had a factory 7X replacement engine.
I do not know if the 1955 308's had numbers in the serial number, as that may be a possibility that someone swapped in a 55 engine. I know the 51-54 did not unless as I mentioned the engine was dealer replaced. Either way its intriguing.0 -
Ray, Longworth's book on pg128 refs 35,921 "7B" mfg in 1952. If this will help 70,000 total production for that year.0
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Good Morning Rick,
Reference "triangle" with model # 7B and Vin 169536 respectively, my past experience these are correct vehicle numbers where DMV inspects car to start new title procedure's. However I have original issued California owners pink slip/title and registration both with SF8112 which is same number on Twin-H block, on pink slip form SF8112 is under engine or I.D., heading? Maybe you can see pink slip on Ebay Hudson auction as I have to offer car for sale. On the head is casted Power Dome along with CWC309112 number, there is one other number located on right rear side of block (below oil filter) which I din't write down. I'll try and take better pictures today, but must learn how to post correctly to transmit. Yesterday I requested man who sold me car to secure from DMV form to verify numbers on the car, outside chance when pink slip was issued only engine number was used?
Thanks for your input,
Ray0 -
'52 Hornet production totaled 35,921. First Hornet serial number was 132916; last one was 202916 (per "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1948-1975"). I agree that if the engine number is an odd format and not a six digit, it's likely a "service engine," either a factory replacement or one of the many leftover '56 "crate engines." Is the engine number on top of the block at the left front corner, or on the side of the block at the right front corner, just below the top (i.e., just forward of the end of the exhaust manifold)?0
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BTW, that CWC number on the head is just the foundry's ID and the number Hudson told them to put on it ... it will be close, and maybe same, as the cylinder head part number in the parts book.0
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To: 51HornetA
Yes my last '53 Hornet I purchased from Rudy Bennett had rebuilt 1956 308, sure would be nice if this engine in fact is a 7X I'll continue to check, however I am offering on car on Ebay presently, if it doesn't sell and after I finish my '62 Buick Skylark, I may go forward with Hornet restoration.
Thanks for interest,
Ray0 -
Good Morning Park,
How have you been? When standing directly in front of the car SF8112 number is on right front of block below and close to water goose neck bolted to block. Questionable why CA. DMV issued pink slip in 1956 with that SF8112 "engine or I.D. number" and not
one on "triangle inside passenger door"? Thanks for information and maybe you can advise me if engine is 7x or 1956 crated replacement? As I am writing, maybe engine is 1956 crated and that's the year when pink slip was issued?
Have a nice day,
Ray0 -
coverton wrote:Ray, Longworth's book on pg128 refs 35,921 "7B" mfg in 1952. If this will help 70,000 total production for that year.
Thanks for information,
Ray0 -
Hey Ray, "Professor Art" here and good to hear from you! See that you cannot escape being bitten by that Hudson Hornet bug! As mentioned by others more experienced than me, the serial number should be stamped vertically along the front leading vertical edge of the block on the pasenger side. That's where my CA Hornet Twin H has its numbers and suspect yours will show same arrangement. May need to wire brush the area to see better. Still very happy with the burgundy/cream Hornet although now tucked away from the Ohio salt and slush. Have driven more than 1000 miles around town and hope to get in more come Spring. Best wishes and Happy Holidays to you and the family! ArtS.0
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Have you got a "junkyard" title - some states issue those in lieu of a regular title when the regular title is unavailable. In some states they issue a sequential serial number that has nothing to do with the actual serial (or VIN, if you prefer). So a state may issue Serial 1234 to a 1942 Chevy that was salvaged from a junkyard and restored and 1235 to a 1957 whatever that came without a title from somewhere. I knew of one Hudson, back 25 years ago that had no less than 3 serial numbers.
And by the way - just for info there were produced in 1952:
Pacemaker - 7,486
Super 6 - 221 876
Commodore 6 - 1,592
Hornet - 35,921
Commodore 8 - 3,125
That adds up to 70,000 - however, there were 79.117 units shipped. I think the difference is due to accounting practices; ie, production was done on the "model" year, shipping by calendar year - or the other way around.
I also have, in my files, a document that breaks it down further by serial number. I made a tech bulletin out of it - since nobody has any money to buy the whole tech bulletin set I'll email any one who wants it a copy of that 1946-1954 production by serial number free (imagine that FREE - as in no charge). See my email address below.
Hudsonly,
Alex B
HETpax2728ab@netscape.net (drop the HET)0 -
Ray, the usual external indication of a potential 7X engine is the presence of 1/2" studs and nuts holding the cylinder head, instead of 7/16" bolts. (I say "potential" because a lot of non-7x engines have been changed over to the 1/2" studs as well). The location of the engine number might be a hint as to when the engine was put in there ... through at least '53 the engine number was on the RF corner, on the side of the block, forward of the front end of the exhaust manifold. In '54 or '55 (my sources differ), they started putting it on that machined boss at the left front corner.
I seem to recall there is a way to ID a '56 block externally, but I don't recall how. Anyone like to confirm that?0 -
Thru the mid 50’s in California, the serial number on the engine was the VIN on the Title. I have 2 Packard straight 8 engines with odd serial numbers. One is a 359 (made only in 1954) with 1954 casting dates but a 1951 S/N. It must have been a factory service engine that was shipped with a blank S/N pad and the original 1951 number was stamped on by the dealer who installed it. Another has a number on the usual location that has nothing in common with any Packard numbering scheme. I was told by one old-timer that the DMV issued a new title and VIN # for some replacement engines that was stamped on the new block.0
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Looking at the engine in the pictures on ebay it does not look like a 7X engine. It does not have 1/2 studs. The Twin H intake is off a 52-54 so maybe only the block was replaced.0
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ArtS wrote:Hey Ray, "Professor Art" here and good to hear from you! See that you cannot escape being bitten by that Hudson Hornet bug! As mentioned by others more experienced than me, the serial number should be stamped vertically along the front leading vertical edge of the block on the pasenger side. That's where my CA Hornet Twin H has its numbers and suspect yours will show same arrangement. May need to wire brush the area to see better. Still very happy with the burgundy/cream Hornet although now tucked away from the Ohio salt and slush. Have driven more than 1000 miles around town and hope to get in more come Spring. Best wishes and Happy Holidays to you and the family! ArtS.
Good Afternoon Art,
Nice to hear from you and pleased to learn your still very happy with the burgundy/cream Hornet, I keep many pictures of that car and question myself as to why in the last three years, I sold two (yours & Rudy Bennett's) great '53 Hornet's.
Throughout the years I assume being a implusive type "A" has caused me some negatives and positives, however I had fun being involved and yes once bitten by Hudson Hornet bug it's difficult to stay away from these fine machines of past American History. I agree it's better keeping this your beauty out of Ohio snow/slush and salted streets, then in the spring it will time to enjoy again. Real happy in Las Vegas, we don't have to worry about east coast conditions, I remember growing up in Brooklyn, N.Y. having a Hudson in the snow and I don't miss those experience's. I have all the numbers from car to include another one from side of block being 532500,
all the other club members have offered helpful information which I appreciate very much. I too would like to wish you and your a family a Merry Christmas & Happy New Years.
Warmest Personal Regards,
Ray
P.S. Did you ever install matching maroon painted exterior sun visior I left in trunk of car before shipping east, if so, I'd like to see latest picture.0 -
hudsontech]Have you got a "junkyard" title - some states issue those in lieu of a regular title when the regular title is unavailable. In some states they issue a sequential serial number that has nothing to do with the actual serial (or VIN, if you prefer). So a state may issue Serial 1234 to a 1942 Chevy that was salvaged from a junkyard and restored and 1235 to a 1957 whatever that came without a title from somewhere. I knew of one Hudson, back 25 years ago that had no less than 3 serial numbers.
And by the way - just for info there were produced in 1952:
Pacemaker - 7,486
Super 6 - 221 876
Commodore 6 - 1,592
Hornet - 35,921
Commodore 8 - 3,125
That adds up to 70,000 - however, there were 79.117 units shipped. I think the difference is due to accounting practices wrote:HETpax2728ab@netscape.net[/email] (drop the HET)
Hi Alex,
Thanks for your time and trouble securing above information. California title I have isn't salvage or junk, just original pink slip, I intend to return to Vegas DMV to check out difference's. If you don't mind I'd appreciate receiving copy of 1946-1954 production by serial number.
My eamil address is kada9528@cox.net even if I sell this '52 Hornet, I know I'll continue to look for '52 or '53 Hornet to enjoy.
Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas & Happy New Years,
Ray0 -
Ray, I have a 1955 308 in my shop which has a serial number that starts with "S" like yours. It is on an embossed portion of the block at the front left side. Packard8 is right about California DMV in the 50's, they frequently retitled cars when the engine was replaced and used that engine number as the serial number. I had run across several over the years when I lived in Reno. Just a little more information to confuse the matter...0
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backtohudsons wrote:Ray, I have a 1955 308 in my shop which has a serial number that starts with "S" like yours. It is on an embossed portion of the block at the front left side. Packard8 is right about California DMV in the 50's, they frequently retitled cars when the engine was replaced and used that engine number as the serial number. I had run across several over the years when I lived in Reno. Just a little more information to confuse the matter...
Thanks for additional information, I must admit I'm totally overwhelmed and you said it right a little more confused, I'm sure with H.E.T. members help and Vegas DMV we'll sort confusion out? By the way I purchased my '62 Buick V-8 215 Skylark from Salt Lake, Utah that we are presently restoring.
Once again thanks and i hope you too enjoy oncoming holidays.
Ray0 -
backtohudsons wrote:Ray, I have a 1955 308 in my shop which has a serial number that starts with "S" like yours. It is on an embossed portion of the block at the front left side. Packard8 is right about California DMV in the 50's, they frequently retitled cars when the engine was replaced and used that engine number as the serial number. I had run across several over the years when I lived in Reno. Just a little more information to confuse the matter...
That makes sense. Ray mentioned that the CA pink slip is dated 1956, obviously not the original for a 1952 car (I doubt that the local Hudson dealer had an unsold holdover for 4 years….lol).
Someone mentioned that the carbs & manifold were 52-53, so if a rod went thru the block in 1956 and the dealer ordered a new crate motor or long block, it would have been assigned a new VIN (the one on the new engine) by the California DMV, hence the new title with a number that matches the block but not the chassis.
Now, are we all thoroughly confused?0 -
Packard8 wrote:Thru the mid 50’s in California, the serial number on the engine was the VIN on the Title. I have 2 Packard straight 8 engines with odd serial numbers. One is a 359 (made only in 1954) with 1954 casting dates but a 1951 S/N. It must have been a factory service engine that was shipped with a blank S/N pad and the original 1951 number was stamped on by the dealer who installed it. Another has a number on the usual location that has nothing in common with any Packard numbering scheme. I was told by one old-timer that the DMV issued a new title and VIN # for some replacement engines that was stamped on the new block.
Thanks for your input, what a great bunch of club member's willing to share information; I'm this is the reason H.E.T., is best classic car club around.
Enjoy and have a safe holidays,
Ray0 -
Park W wrote:Ray, the usual external indication of a potential 7X engine is the presence of 1/2" studs and nuts holding the cylinder head, instead of 7/16" bolts. (I say "potential" because a lot of non-7x engines have been changed over to the 1/2" studs as well). The location of the engine number might be a hint as to when the engine was put in there ... through at least '53 the engine number was on the RF corner, on the side of the block, forward of the front end of the exhaust manifold. In '54 or '55 (my sources differ), they started putting it on that machined boss at the left front corner.
I seem to recall there is a way to ID a '56 block externally, but I don't recall how. Anyone like to confirm that?
Hi Park,
I still have picture of your beautiful white Hornet with burgundy top convertible, wow what a fine car. There is blue one in town, but doesn't compare with yours. Well I guess we confirmed my '52 engine isn't a 7X, however according to another member (and I believe you also mentioned same) that maybe it's '55 Hudson crated replacement engine, can't believe how good car starts and sounds. Engine Rudy Bennett rebuilt and installed in '53 Black Hornet I purchased from him was 1956 Twin-H. Anyway I believe with all threads I'm learning more, however I'm still confused?
Thanks Park and have a wonderful Merry Christmas and Happy Healthy New Years,
Ray
P.S. Park to see '53 Hornet use following link http://www.sunbeltcars.com/hudson.htm to see it and many, many more classic cars.0 -
Ray wrote:Good Afternoon Art,
Nice to hear from you and pleased to learn your still very happy with the burgundy/cream Hornet, I keep many pictures of that car and question myself as to why in the last three years, I sold two (yours & Rudy Bennett's) great '53 Hornet's.
Throughout the years I assume being a implusive type "A" has caused me some negatives and positives, however I had fun being involved and yes once bitten by Hudson Hornet bug it's difficult to stay away from these fine machines of past American History. I agree it's better keeping this your beauty out of Ohio snow/slush and salted streets, then in the spring it will time to enjoy again. Real happy in Las Vegas, we don't have to worry about east coast conditions, I remember growing up in Brooklyn, N.Y. having a Hudson in the snow and I don't miss those experience's. I have all the numbers from car to include another one from side of block being 532500,
all the other club members have offered helpful information which I appreciate very much. I too would like to wish you and your a family a Merry Christmas & Happy New Years.
Warmest Personal Regards,
Ray
P.S. Did you ever install matching maroon painted exterior sun visior I left in trunk of car before shipping east, if so, I'd like to see latest picture.
Good Morning Ray:
Well, the visor did not make it with the car during its journey east from LV so all we have is our memories and imagination of how it would look. But maybe it's for the better that the visor is off since I often have to crane my neck to see the overhead traffic lights while waiting at an intersection. I have learned not to pull too far into intersections remembering that the Hudson windshield is probably more than 50% shorter in height and less raked than my VWs! Anyway, I have attempted to attach a recent jpg of the Hornet just after getting a bath. Hope you enjoy. Best wishes! ArtS0 -
ArtS wrote:Good Morning Ray:
Well, the visor did not make it with the car during its journey east from LV so all we have is our memories and imagination of how it would look. But maybe it's for the better that the visor is off since I often have to crane my neck to see the overhead traffic lights while waiting at an intersection. I have learned not to pull too far into intersections remembering that the Hudson windshield is probably more than 50% shorter in height and less raked than my VWs! Anyway, I have attempted to attach a recent jpg of the Hornet just after getting a bath. Hope you enjoy. Best wishes! ArtS
Good Morning Art,
I must be getting/am old, I forgot man I sold the car to in New York didn't include repaired/painted visor with proper chrome brackets in the trunk; too bad. I agree with other member, many times on eBay you'll find Fulton view finder being offered, if not Taiwnese copy are good enough to install and save your pain in the neck with installed visor (Big Jim in Texas has some).
Pity, I had two Fulton view finders that went with my '53 Black Beauty when I sold it. Car looks great and I am happy to know it's in your good hands, as you are a owner with pride of ownership.
Take Care0 -
Put the visor back on, and look for a 'traffic light viewer'... There are a bunch of threads on finding and mounting these - throughout this forum. Neat little devices, they show up on Ebay all the time, and from what I can tell, it appears that they are still in limited production as replicas.[/QUOTE]
I agree, see my message to Art.
Have a good day,
Ray0
This discussion has been closed.
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