202 origin

Kdancy · January 2012

Ok, I have spent hours trying to find info on the design of the 202 Jet engine and have read three different things.
1- it was a rehashed 212
2- it was based on the 8 cylinder engine.
3- it was a new design and only used a few parts from the earlier engine.
Does anyone have the "real" info?

[Deleted User] · January 2012

Number 2 and 3 are correct. It was partly a new design but it was specifically designed to use the eight cylinder tools and dies. They had no money for new tooling so ever ingenious Hudson reused the eights toolings to make these engines.

Geoff · January 2012

I have already explained the 202 in a different thread. As mentioned above, Hudson used the same tools for boring the cylinders, but there the similarity ends. It is not based on the 8 cylinder engine, it is a completely new design. The pistons are similar, but the only interchangeable parts between an 8 and a 202 are the flywheel bolts. The crankpin diameter is the same as the earlier 6's and 8's and the main bearings are the same diameter as the Step-down motors. The main bearings are all the same size diametrically, whereas the splash motors were different diameters from front to back.

Kdancy · January 2012

Geoff, no slight to you, but the other 14 answers I read was positive they had the right info as well, thus my confusion in reading all the "right" answers as they didn't all say the same thing but at least 3 different scenarios with the main one being that the 202 is nothing more than an updated 8 with 6 cylinders.
I'm considering the possibility of using one in place of a splasher engine in a 37.

SuperDave · January 2012

Interseting thread.
It seems like a great Idea to upgrade the early splasher with this more "modern" engine. To the average guy, they look very much the same. Now the questions are.. What about interchangeing transmissions? Do the motor mounts align with each other? Waterpump/fan clearance, Any other "fitment" problems with installing a 202 in an early model car? I have seen a few mentions of some of these questions in other postings, but all of this information in one place would be great. Someone that has done this should be able to save a lot of grief by letting us know what to expect.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

I have seen the 202 in a 47-47 truck ,it seems to me they used the whole assembly motor-bellhousing-transmission. And adopted the driveshaft to fit.
I dont think the origin of the 202 is realy something to argue about. No one would argue the fact that Hudson would use what was on hand to save money if it was practical.
And we can assume the Jet project was no different. However it was such a drastic change from the Standard Hudson the list of actual parts that interchange did turn out to be quite short.
In one of the books I have -dont recall wictch one right now. A Hudson employee tells about the rear window of the Jet. Seems Hudson made a speacial deal with PPG who was also making glass for Ford at the time. To make the rear windo for the Jet on the same mold as the they had fo Ford. Hence the resembance the Jet has in profile to the Fords of the same early 50's ,
Roger

Aaron D. IL · January 2012

The performance specs on the 202 are fairly close to the old 212. I've heard and seen putting the Jet 202 has been done more than once into '40's 6 cyl. Hudson's. Not so sure about the earlier '30's cars. I'm sure it would require a lot of modification but if you didn't have a numbers matching original 212 anyways, and only a Hudson expert would know the difference, it's a swap that makes sense. Especially if you were planning on driving the car very regularly and perhaps at higher RPMs than it's safe to run the 212 at. I'm curious to hear more about it from those on the forum who have done it or knows someone who has!

[Deleted User] · January 2012

I sold off one of my Jets to an older Gentleman in our local Hudson club about this time last year. It had not rum in years and ,he now has it on the road and running like new.
He also has a Hornet with a 262 ,and he tells me he is amazed at how much get up and go the little Jet has. He had never driven one before and was just looking for a project. Now you could'nt take it away from him,
Roger

Marconi · January 2012

Go with Geoff on this one, the 202 was a new design designed to use the tooling for the straight eights. You'll notice that the physical layout is similar to the 262 engine except for the outlet on the exhaust manifold which is like the splasher engines.

Kdancy · January 2012

how much over bore will the 202 safely take?
Also wonder about block intregrity as the 212 engine that I recently rebuilt was cracked between the bores on a couple of cylinders and I had to sleeve it. Understand that it is a common problem.
The more I read here, the more I am inclined to plan for the future build using the 202. Physically, is it close to the same size as the 212?

[Deleted User] · January 2012

Kdancy wrote:

The more I read here, the more I am inclined to plan for the future build using the 202. Physically, is it close to the same size as the 212?

Yes they are. The 202 is approx 2" longer.

Here is a photo of my mock-up 202 motor and trans sitting on the frame of my 39 112.
The trans is a Borg-Warner 3 spd w/OD from a Jet.

The front motor mount plate has been modified to fit the 39 frame.
The plate on the right is the modified one

I added a box to the X-member to allow for extra length of the engine/trans.

Because I decided to use the original motor mount locations, the firewall will have to be recessed 2" to allow for the extra length of the 202. There is still clearance between the fan and the radiator. However, since the fan location is lower on the block on the 202 than it is on the 212, I will go with an electric pusher fan. For some unknown reason I failed to take pictures when I put the radiator and nose back on the frame to test fit. Somewhere in my computer there is a pic of a 202 in a 46 Super 6 convertible that shows how low the fan is in relation to the radiator.

I think you would be making a wise choice by going to a 202 if you can find a good one with a 3spd w/OD or it won't break the bank to rebuild one. Since the trans is a double lever, you will have to convert it to a floor shift. Supposedly they used this same type of trans in the old Jeeps. You will also have to work out how to engage/disengage the clutch.

Hope these pictures come out large enough to see.

Kevin C.

Geoff · January 2012

Kdancy wrote:

how much over bore will the 202 safely take?

You cannot safely go over .040", as you have the same bore spacings as the 8's, with no water jacket between the cylinders. Gaskets are a problem if you go too far oversize, and cylinder distortion. Jets originally used pinned piston rings, as in the earlier motors. I have used non-pinned pistons, but had oil consumption problems which I solved by using chrome top rings and stainless rail spring-backed oil rings. There are other issues with 202 motors, they are prone to crack between the water and bolt holes between cylinders 2&3 and 4&5, so check carefully in this area if you are rebuilding a motor. Also bearing sets are getting very difficult to source in undersizes. Pistons are the same as all 6's and 8's.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

Since the subject is on the 202, can you get new lifters anywhere?? Mine are noisy, and i have adjusted them, but they are not much better. The old girl runs good but I can't stand the "clatter".

Thanks, Barry Smedley
53' Super Jet
and a bunch of Crosley's

Geoff · January 2012

The lifters are interchangeable with the big motors from '48 on. But I doubt that they will be worn. The most likely cause of your noise will be the valve has embedded down into the tappet bolt, and your feeler gauge will not be an accurate indication of the clearance, as it only goes across the periphery of the bolt, and there will be more clearance than indicated. Fixable by removing the bolts and re-facing. Dale Cooper has new lifters if you really need them. You can also use Mopar lifters, which come in .001 and .002 oversizes diametrically.

[Deleted User] · January 2012

Thanks, Geoff. Can they be adjusted by tighting them down util the clatter stops, then backing them off a little? :huh: I was told by an old Hudson mechanic that you could do that.

Barry Smedley
53' Super Jet
and a bunch of Crosley's

Geoff · January 2012

Yes, you can do that. You can also use a wire gauge instead of a flat feeler gauge. With a short right angle on the end of the gauge you can get and indication of the clearance by how much you can twist the gauge when you have it in the gap.

202 origin

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