Changing the rear end ratio.
Hey guys, I finally got to drive the 53 7C after working on it since Feb 8th. It still needs lots of work but in driving it for the last two days I found out it has 4.55 to 1 gears. I want to be able to drive this car on the hwy like I drive the 50, that cruises at 70 easily. My guess is the 53 is straining about 50 to 55, might get to 60. The car has OD.
I'd like to get the 4.09 ratio, anyone have some advice on which route would be best. Install a new ring and pinion if I could find them, change the whole rear end or go with a later model complete rear end. Thanks in advance for any ideas. Richie.
Not to change the subject, but I have to thank Roger Tallent for all the parts he supplied for me. The car wouldn't be running without his help in finding me all kinds of parts. Thanks Roger.
I'd like to get the 4.09 ratio, anyone have some advice on which route would be best. Install a new ring and pinion if I could find them, change the whole rear end or go with a later model complete rear end. Thanks in advance for any ideas. Richie.
Not to change the subject, but I have to thank Roger Tallent for all the parts he supplied for me. The car wouldn't be running without his help in finding me all kinds of parts. Thanks Roger.
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Comments
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Richie, I tried this in the early 60s with a rear end out of a 54 Hornet Hdro. in a 52 7B with a ovedrive trans. It caused the clutch to slip and eventually be replaced. It also ruduced top end speed. I went back to the original gears.0
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PS ,I did find a 4.10 (or what ever) out of a car that had no OD and put it in my hardtop and it makes a great road car. No trouble climbing East coast mountains and sometimes have to kick it out of OD climbing West coast mountians. Very happy with this arangement. I believe it was a optional ratio from the factory.0
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Richie , My last car was a 49 Commodore with a 262 and OD with a 4.10
gear. I t was ideal except in PA. on some of the mountians I had to kick it into direct drive to
pull them. A Hornet should have no trouble.
An interesting thing is , it was almmost as fast ,top end , in second OD as in third
gear.
Roy0 -
My '53 Hornet had 4.55 with o/d, which means it is essential to have the o/d working. However, I don't have any problem with cruising at 60 m.p.h., the engine is quite comfortable. My Jet also has o/d, with 4.1 rear gears, and is even better, so I will change the Hornet tot he same set-up. I have the ring and pinion to do so, it's such a job on that design rear end. Does anyone have any idea how to manage without a housing spreader?
Earlier version was much simpler, with removable unit.
Geoff0 -
Rick, yes the OD works fine. My speedometer doesn't work so I'm just guessing about the speed. Thanks for your comment. Richie
1951hornethardtop I think the hydros had something like 3.07 to 1 or close to that. That would be too much with OD. My 50 Pacemaker has 4.10 to 1 and is great around town and on the hwy. If i find a set of 4.10's I will go that way. Thanks, Richie.
Roy, I like your combination as that is what my 50 has,262 with 4.10's and OD. That combo works great for me. Thanks, Richie.
Geoff, my engine is not as healthy as yours probably and is quite loud at hwy speed. I will try and end up with 4.10's as that seems to be an all around good ratio. It is a tuff job on that style rear end, been there and done that. I have no idea about the housing spreader. Thanks. Richie.0 -
Last time I was in that situation I took one of my parts cars with a good rearend and springs. And unhooked the brake lines pulled the mounting pins on the springs . And dropped the whole works out as a unit. Pulled the unit off my car and just reinstalled the whole thing.
Then I took my good brakes and stuff from one to the other.
I know that's "Cheating" but hey no one saw me do it,
Roger0 -
FYI
I think Tallent R has the best solution to change the whole rear housing if dont have tools to change the Ring & Pinion. Additionally, the best Ratio for higher speed is the Std Shift (Non OD) 4.09 Ratio...I would think they are more available to locate than OD Ratio. The Automatic 3.07 Ratio is far too high to use.0 -
Well Roger, what do you say !! You have gotten me everything I needed so far, got a good complete rear end with 4.10's ? I hate to change the whole rear as I just put new seals and bearings in this one anlong with new brakes etc. I'll do what I have to to make this a hwy friendly car.
Olracer, back in the 60's I built many a rear ends, mostly the center sections for racing that were removeable and just a few integral types. Probably just as easy to swap the whole thing I guess. Thanks for your comment. Richie.0 -
As for how to do the gear swapout without a spreader tool ... write a check to the local Chevy or Ford dealer's shop to do it. Both makes have used the Dana 44 rear axle in fairly recent years, so an experienced technician will be equipped to get it done.0
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Yes Richie I have many rear ends and several with sprins still attached. Shipping it
across the country is a scarry idea though ! !
I do have a 49 in the shop almost stripped that was an overdive car - has a correct setup for your use. Just the older style , but I dont think it would matter.
Roger0 -
In the 48-54 parts book the section that lists the severe usage parts has several ratios available, probably because the Dana 44 was used by other auto makers, including independants (e.g. Kaiser), and many gear sets were available from the manufacturer. I have a Richmond 3.91 gear set in my '54's Dana 44. I believe 3.91 is the lowest you can go without changing other parts in the differential.0
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Park, I'm too old to be lying on my back trying to change a ring and pinion gear set in an integral rear end. If it was the removable center section type I'd do it on the bench. There is a local drive line shop that does that type of work and I believe I'd have him do it if I could find a new ring and pinion set. Thanks, Richie.
Roger, you are right about the shipping. If I can't find a new ring and pinion set or something locally I'll try to work something out with you. I appreciate all you have done already. A friend of mine told me last year there was an old 50's Hudson in a salvage yard near his house in south GA. I'm going to ask him to look at it and see if the rear end is there and was it a standard shift car with or without OD. Again thanks for everything. Richie.
Dougson, are you suggesting that Richmond might have a new set of gears for a 53 Hornet?? I'd be happy with 391's, I'll call them tomorrow to see what is available. Thanks for the information, Richie.0 -
i have read through the shop manual several times since i have been working on the back axle, brakes and bearings on my '53. that rear end spreader had me intrigued too, spread .020" only to remove. it looked, from the picture, one could be fairly easy to make. i don't have to remove mine (i hope). is the removable rear cover rear end the dana 44?
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Glad to help Richie , Good luck with your project,
Roger0 -
Richie The Dana housing spreaders are available on eBay and other places on the INTERNET. The prices are all over the map.
Posting found pictures for those who do not know what this tool looks like or does. Note this is used on the bolted cover Hudson installed rear ends used from 1952 (late) and on0 -
Roger, thanks. Richie.
Ken, thanks for the info, I never would have guessed that. I may have a solution to this project. My 51 Pacemaker has either 3.91 or 4.10's I don't remember for sure which one but it is an "around town" car and swaping rear ends between the Hornet and Pacemaker might be my best solution. I'm working on the details now and will make sure I have all my ducks in a row before starting.
Thanks Ken and everyone else for your input, I appreciate it. Richie.0 -
Richie, I've tried several ratios in my '51 Hornet ragtop with OD, and found the 3.73 is as close to perfect as it gets. Regarding changing out other parts of the "diffy" if you have to depart quite a bit from your original ratio, look at Reider Racing's web site. They have charts that show the ratios possible with each differential gear housing (the part that contains the diffy gears and to which the ring gear bolts). Reider folks are very knowledgable on the Dana 44s; they have genuine Dana gears (vs. cheap a__ repro's), and they have the internal diffy housings if you need to change that out. The later pinion gears that they have require a different u-joint trunnion (more splines), and they have those too.0
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Park, I went to the Richmond Gear web site today and called them 4 times before getting to talk to a human. I could not get thru to the tech line or the sales line so I ended up talking to Bob in purchasing, he gave me a number to call in the tech dept. I called that number and got a recording so I left my name and number. I haven't gotten a call from them yet, maybe tomorrow.
I will go to Reider Racing's web site and check it out, great info and thanks Park.
Do you or anyone else see a problem with swaping the complete rear ends between the 53 Hornet and the 51 Pacemaker? Again thanks to everyone for their comments. Richie0 -
Park, I just visited the Reider Racing's web site, I'll call them tomorrow and get the info I need. Richie.0
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The only "Problem" I ran into doing it has been the front bolts thru the frame. They tend to be stuck to the rubber and do NOT want to push out. An older Hudson Guy here localy happened by while I was working on it. He said go ahead and drop the rear end anyway( I had rear of springs loose and jack under punkin)
Well that worked , dropped jack down the springs eyelets turned on the bolts and they came loose. They had been seized in the rubber bushings in the spring eyelets.
Then the bolts came out easy,
Roger0 -
Roger, great advice I'll remember that. I normally just change the complete housing leaving the springs in place. Thanks for the hint Roger. Richie.0
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Well my experiance with old rusty ubolts that hold the springs to the axle has has ended with a sawzall too many times. But then I scrap a lot of rusty old Hudsons at thier retirement . So it is just easier to drop the whole works out by pulling the pins,
Roger0 -
Might try here for Dana 44 parts too...
ringpinion.com/0 -
Roger, I soak the "U" bolts with penetrating oil for a couple of days before taking them apart and have been lucky so far, but thanks for the alert.
TwinH, I checked them out, good site, thanks. Richie.0 -
Not to hijack post, i looked at a '52 Hornet today, and it had the bolt on rear cover, which I think was a mid year change? Is one type preferred over the other? Thanks!0
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I would'nt say one was better or worse than the other. The newer style may be easier to get parts for in that it was not a "Hudson" rearend so shared parts with others,
Roger0
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