Headgasket tricks

boothguy
boothguy Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Talked to a guy who said he puts grease on headgaskets when he installs them. Wonderiin what favorite techniques others have to install headgaskets?

Comments

  • I've had good luck using the Permatex spray-on copper sealant. It's also a good idea to read the gasket set instructions, some specify a dry installation. :confused:
  • Uncle Josh
    Uncle Josh Senior Contributor
    Spray both sides with high-temp Aluminum paint and assemble while still tacky.
  • I Still Swear By Armorall And Proper Torque Sequence As Well As Several Retorques After Running Engine Bill Albright
  • PAULARGETYPE
    PAULARGETYPE Senior Contributor
    Hi as said above I Spray both sides with high-temp Aluminum paint and assemble while still tacky.Then Proper Torque Sequence As Well As Several Retorques After Running Engine does a great job . I also want to say some thing about getting the head trued up while you have it off it makes a big difference and on a 308/262/232 I always use new grade 8 bolts 3" x 7/16 or 3' x 1/2 with extra thick washers and on the earlyer splasner engines and on the 8 cyl's I like to remove the studs and use new bolts there also it makes a big difference when you take the head off the next time
  • We've used the Permatex Spray copper on the head gaskets on all engines we've put together for years. I usually spray two coats on each side. It's easy, no mess and have had no problems
  • Yup... Permatex copper works wonders...



    I would add... however, as I did last time we all explored this one...



    That truing the head, having the surface properly prepared... (and decking the block, if possible) and using new fasteners is your best bet.
  • hudsonsplasher1
    hudsonsplasher1 Senior Contributor
    I learned a couple of tricks from Jack Clifford. Clean the gasket,as well as all surfaces well with brake cleaner, (not carb cleaner) it's a petrolium base and will leave a film on the gasket. Soak the gasket in water (I use the bath tub)for about 1/2 hour before installing. Pat dry and spray with aluminum paint and install while it's still tacky. Jack used this method in his racing days.
  • an lilmportant step that no one has mentioned. I run a tap down the threaded bolt yoles in block to clean out the old gunk that will give false torque readings and also dip each bolt or stud in permatex before installing them, REPEAT NO COPPER SPRAY OR ANYTHING BUT ARMORALL, MAKES THE GASKET SUPER SLIPPERY AND SEATS GREAT, used this method for many years with no failures BILL ALBRIGHT
  • boothguy
    boothguy Senior Contributor
    I guess one thing in common is some type of lube so the gasket doesn't deform during the "squish". I am assuming the copper or aluminum paints are doing the same thing. I don't get the water soaking but who am I to question Clifford.
  • hudsonsplasher1
    hudsonsplasher1 Senior Contributor
    The water soaking expands the gasket allowing more crush when the head is torqued. I helps the gasket conform to any inperfections in the head or block.

    I have used this method several times with good reslults. Make sure the head has been resurfaced, and it's clean.
  • bill a wrote:
    an lilmportant step that no one has mentioned. I run a tap down the threaded bolt yoles in block to clean out the old gunk that will give false torque readings and also dip each bolt or stud in permatex before installing them, REPEAT NO COPPER SPRAY OR ANYTHING BUT ARMORALL, MAKES THE GASKET SUPER SLIPPERY AND SEATS GREAT, used this method for many years with no failures BILL ALBRIGHT



    Bill seems you are adamant about your way being the best way...



    Insomuch as to discredit the Copper spray specifically... (as well as anything else) :mad:



    Since I am young, and always open to Hudson advice of an expert...



    Let me ask this... :D



    Next time I need to do a headgasket, and if I use your method, and follow every step you put forth...



    If for some reason it does not work.... will you reimburse me the cost of a head gasket? :cool:



    I can honestly say, that I have heard this method from you before, and got to admit you have likely done 50 head gasket for every one we ever did, and it must for some reason be tried and true...



    I can't believe it works, but Bill, let me say, for the years you have been doing it, and the number of cars that have gone thru your shop, I would put faith in a prescribed method of yours, as a leap of faith of sorts, but I guess I want a back-up plan just in case.....



    Heck it might be a few years before I do one anyway....
  • TwinH
    TwinH Senior Contributor
    As much as I believe Bill and wanted to give the Armor-all a try, I chickened out

    and went with the permatex copper spray (Sorry Bill). I played hell getting the

    Clifford head off, double nutting the studs and they all came out reasonably except

    for the very center stud. Took me a week of dinkin around with that one stud and when

    I finally did get it to budge the head was coming up with it. Man was that aluminum

    corroded around the stud. Head and stud came off together then I used an impact gun

    and a drift to get the stud out. Cleaned the deck,chased the threads and drilled out

    all the gunk in all the water passages on the block. The head was a little more work,

    the reason for pulling the head(besides the blown gasket) was a crack on the top of

    the head in between #5 and #6 that had been previously repaired with a mig. That

    didn't hold and by the looks of the inside of the head they had tried every stop-leak

    known to man. Didn't seal the crack but managed to plug all the smaller water

    passages in the head. Drilled those out and taped off the thermostat and temp sender

    holes with a foil duct tape. Picked up a couple gallons of rustaid at the hardware

    (normally used in these parts to clean rust stains from irragation off of your house)

    Filled the head and let it soak for a couple hrs.,then taped off all the water passages

    and flipped it over and filled it up and let it soak again. By this time the inside looked like a brand new casting. Bead blasted the outside and took it to a welding buddies.

    He chucked it in a mill and milled out the previous repair and all the spider cracks

    radiating out from it. Tigged it all back in and made it look easy. Off to the machinists

    buddies place to surface it and the head surface cleaned up very quickly with less

    than an .010 cut. New set of ARP studs permatexed into the block,copper sprayed

    gasket,the head back on,and washers and nuts w/moly thread lube. Pulled it down

    in 4 or 5 steps to(can't remember,90 or 100 ft. lbs.?) Macgyvered a garden hose

    and pressure regulator to the water pump and piece of pvc to the top hose to get

    rid of whatever crap I could get out of the block. Sure didn't want to run it through

    my freshly rodded out radiator. Retorqued 2 or 3 times cold,plumbed the radiator

    back up and have almost 500 miles on it now,and it works great. Just couldn't

    bring myself to armor-all it after spending almost $500 on studs,gasket,acid,paint,

    radiator repair,etc.etc. Not for fear of the cylinders not sealing just worried about

    water migrating from all those small passages.
  • Well, like hudsondad said, we have used Copper spray for years, and used it on every application...



    But next time, to give it a try... maybe I will try the Armor All.



    c'mon... Bill has done probably hundreds of head gaskets...



    far more than me. GOt to figure he is on to something...
  • I'm not a Hudson expert but have replaced many head gaskets. I worked at a MoPaR dealer in the early 70's and shop policy was to Permatex every head gasket. You know the stuff, that sticky globby dark brown stuff. Never had one fail and I still use it on my stuff today. I'll try the copper stuff on my 31 Hudson if I ever get into the engine.



    Have a nice day

    Steve
  • I've seen the aviation Permatex (sticky brown stuff) used with success. I just can't believe there is not a lot of ugly residue to clean up for the next time. A lot of good thoughts and suggestions here on this discussion. I think as each person finds success with a method, and they will continue to use this procedure. I'm aware that a lot of people paint head gaskets, whether its aluminum or spray copper with proven results. Each will probably continue to utilize what has worked for them.
  • Got a brand on the high temp aluminum paint, would hate to buy the wrong stuff.....
  • Nevada Hudson
    Nevada Hudson Senior Contributor
    Napa has the paint. Matches the color of my '50 Commodore 6's engine also.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Main thing if using aluminium paint is timing - if you let it set hard it goes rock-hard, and you will be in more trouble than if you fitted the gasket dry. Let it get touch-dry and then fit.

    Geoff.
  • Permatex Hylomar is also a good anerobic sealant.



    Dad and I have always used Permatex spray on copper. Has worked well.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    It's interesting that almost all the comments here have focused on what to coat the gasket with. Of course that's what the original question was about, but the objective of it all is to get a good seal and avoid a blowout or the more common seepage. In the Jack Clifford tech sessions that I attended, and in his publications, he emphasized the torquing operation more than the coating on the gasket. The crucual area where he differed with the factory instructions was in re-torquing the head nuts or bolts several times over a period of weeks, always with the engine cold (yes, for both cast iron and aluminum heads). His contention was that after the typically specified torquing operations, the gasket is not yet full compressed, so there's some more "relaxation" and the resulting lessening of the pressure on the gasket. I went through two or three gaskets on my Hornet before trying his technique, but have had no problems after I used it.
  • Let Me Tell You All Yow I Discovered The Armorall Trick, I Was At The Drag Strip And After Two Runs And Winning, I Weon Both, I Blew The Head Gasket. I Had A New Gasket With Me But No Sealer, The Only Thibg Iln The Truck Was Armorall And I Sprayed The Gasket, Head And Block And Did A Quick Installation, This Was A Fresh Engine And All Was Clean. It Had 120 Pounds Of Copression. I Won The Finals Abnd Raced That Engine For Ten Or Twelve Years Without Ever Having Another Head Gasket Problem, Admitted We Only Ran About Twice A Year And The Car Sat Unused Between Races. Strictly A Race Car Now Owned By Dany Spring. That Convinced Me To Use Armorall And It Has Worked For Me, But To Each His Own, Happy Hudsoning, Bill Albright
  • super651
    super651 Senior Contributor
    I to have been using High-Temp Alum. Paint for many years,and used it on my Turbo-charged 308 And a Super-Charged 308 with no gasket failures.

    Randy Maas,could you give us your tried and true exp.on head gaskets ?

    With the Drag Hudson. Hudsonly Rudy.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Bill, it's hard to argue against success like you've had! Back to the initial question on this string, I remember putting grease on head gaskets back in the early fifties ... it was a common practice then.
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