And speaking of Hudson starters..........

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User]
edited August 2012 in HUDSON
I've been having a minor starting problem with my '53 Super Wasp I recently purchased. When the engine is cold and I first start it, the starter engages with no problem and the engine turns over, but the engine doesn't always start the first time. I run into problems with the next few attempts to start as the engine. As it is just about to turn over, the starter prematurely disengages and you hear the starter gear whirl away. It then seems to take about seven or eight futher tries before the engine kicks over. I've replaced the starter solenoid on the inner fender with a new one and this seems to help somewhat.

Also, when I was underneath the car I thought I'd put some oil on the starter shaft. However, when looking at the starter, I noticed a cast iron shroud around the backside of the starter. Is this the correct starter for a Super Wasp with a manual transmission and overdrive? Thanks for any help here.

Dan

Comments

  • Snailslayer
    Snailslayer Expert Adviser
    get a larger gage starter cable. 0 or 00 gage. check the voltage drop across the cable.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Sounds like you've got a starter for a Hydramatic car. One way to fix the starter "kicking out" problem ... there's a different Bendix drive that latches into the "engaged" position, and doesn't kick out until the engine actually starts. They're available for the standard tranny starter; don't know about the Hydramatic models. Check with a starter-generator-alternator shop.
  • Clutchguy
    Clutchguy Senior Contributor
    Your car has a double lever T-86e transmission. These are supposed to have a cover that protects the Bendix and are not accessible. It sounds like the Bendix is either dirty and/or needs oiling. Using the window above the starter,and using an oil can with a flex end,squit oil in there and see if it helps-usually does. If not,remove the starter and investigate what the issue is. Hope this helps CG
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Thanks for pointing out that the starter for my Super Wasp is indeed suppose to have the cover in order to protect the Bendix drive. It does have the Borg Warner double lever transmission. And, I'll see about oiling the starter drive with one of my longer spout oil cans.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    DO NOT OIL THE STARTER BENDIX DRIVE! The problem is more likely to be gunk and grease jamming up the worm. These are meant to be completely dry, so you need to remove the starter motor, and thoroughly wash the worm drive assembly and pinion with lacquer thinners or similar to remove all traces of oil, dust and grease. the only oil necessary is for the armature shaft and bushings, and then only a very light application of machine oil.
  • Clutchguy
    Clutchguy Senior Contributor
    Well Geoff, I hate to disagree ,but I have been oiling these for many years with great success. Sqirting oil on them lubs it and when engaged,most of the oil spins out and subsequently lets the dirt escape. I guess if the climate you are running it in is a dirt road or terrible dirty atmospere,it would probably be an issue. I've not experienced any issues though. Some Bendixes are worn out and need to be addressed. Alot of times,lack of use causes them to gum up and stick.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I looked up starter motors in my 1957 Motor's Auto Repair Manual. Under, "starter drive service", "standard Bendix drive", I was unable to find any recommendation for lubricating the drive itself. It does mention using SAE 10 oil for sparingly lubricating the armature shaft (when disassembled). Also, kerosene should be used for cleaning the Bendix drive (this was also backed up by an online website for servicing aircraft engine Bendix drives and that cleaning fluids such as carb cleaner should be avoided as this could interfere with the lubricant on the starter motor itself).

    Lastly, in the 1951 Hudson Owner Manual for starter maintenance it says the following: "The Bendix drive pinion threads should be cleaned occasionally witha a brush dipped in kerosene to remove gum and dirt. Do not oil the threads as the kerosene will provide all the lubrication required".

    So, I guess both Geoff and CG are correct in that the drive should be cleaned (Geoff) and also lubricated(CG) except with kerosene for both procedures. I was hoping I'd come up with something that gives both of these "knowledgeable on Hudsons" individuals something they both can be given credit for!

    Thanks again for the help guys!

    Dan
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Kerosene is after all a very fine oil as well as a cleaner and fuel. Having a background in industrial maintenance, I have freed up sticky starter drives with turbine oil.
    Roger
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Dan-

    Probably shouldn't get involved in this, but here's my take on it:

    Certainly the most glaring issue about following it "by the book", is that currently, it is not 1957. Not to be a smartass, but one has to remember that "the books" didn't take into account half-a-century later maintenance issues!

    Springs (and all of our metal, really), is not what it used to be. Original springs don't have the power or elasticity that they did when new. This factor alone would mean that dirt in the Bendix would do a better job of "sticking" than that same dirt did 50+ years ago. Also, except for a very few owners, we don't drive our Hudsons daily, which requires even MORE maintenance than the accepted norm.

    Occasionally, even if the books tell us to do one thing, we have to apply some current situation standards to any problems that arise.

    Just one man's opinion . . .
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Well if nothing else it means that once you oil it - you must keep oiling it . Or take it out and clean it every so often.
    No big deal either way
    Roger
  • RL Chilton
    RL Chilton Administrator, Member
    Roger-

    Sent you a PM!!
  • Clutchguy
    Clutchguy Senior Contributor
    I guess this is why I don't and won't respond to these post anymore.
  • Huddy42
    Huddy42 Senior Contributor
    I'm with you CG, I don't bother to respond for the same reason.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Oh It dosnt bother me when someone makes fun of my advice. I have been wrong in the past and will freely admit it, However if I tell someone something to try it is because I firmly understand it to be true. And only relate the info to be helpfull,
    Roger
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Whatever works for you! The instruction manuals for Bendix drives, including Hudson workshop manuals all stress not to lubricate the drive. In my experience they work best dry, but in the case of Step-downs it probably doesn't matter too much ,as the mechanism is under complete cover. In the older cars where the Bendix is hanging out in the open air then it can easily get contaminated by dust and grit, particularly when driving over dirt roads like we do out here whenever we get the opportunity!
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    Geoff, the single-lever tranny stepdowns ('48-'51) do not have any cover on the Bendix.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    Park, my '53 Hornet has a single lever transmission, and has the covered Bendix drive! Must have been using up the old parts on the r.h.d. models! Just to confuse the issue, I had some spare grille parts, so completed the triangle in the front grille, because I reckon they look as if there is something missing on the '53's.
  • Park_W
    Park_W Senior Contributor
    edited August 2012
    That brings a laugh, Geoff. Back in the fifties we took the triangle pieces out of the '51 and '52's to make them what we thought was "cleaner," like the '53! And of course the hood and trunk decorations had to be removed.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    edited August 2012
    Hi Park_W,

    I am just dropping by to let you know that I've asked our developers to look at the issue with uploading an image to a previous post that you are having. It will take some time to get to as we have a lot of other tasks, but we're doing our best to have this working again for you soon! If you have any more problems, I have a little forum post which I will be checking for comments every day or two or you can contact us directly. Its called "Features You Would Like To See In Classic Car" and its pinned to the first page at the top as an announcement.

    Kind regards,

    Rachael
    ClassicCar
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