1952 Hudson Non Starter - Frustrated
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I have a 1952 Hudson Hornet with a twin H 308. I am having problems getting my engine started. Believe or not I could start it 4 weeks ago but now nothing. These are things I checked:
Timing seems right on.
I have spark to every spark plug.
I re-gapped the plugs at .038 to accommodate the Pertronics electronics
The plugs seem to be wet and black after I remove them to check for spark and gap.
The amps at the coil seem okay at around 3.75Amp.
I have changed the fuel filter and I have gas coming into the carbs.
Improvements I have made to the engine that are non stock:
Pertronics installed.
Clifford Headers
12 Volt conversion (rebuilt generator wiring for 12V, new volt regulator, new light bulbs,)
I am stumped and frustrated. Any advice or help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil
Timing seems right on.
I have spark to every spark plug.
I re-gapped the plugs at .038 to accommodate the Pertronics electronics
The plugs seem to be wet and black after I remove them to check for spark and gap.
The amps at the coil seem okay at around 3.75Amp.
I have changed the fuel filter and I have gas coming into the carbs.
Improvements I have made to the engine that are non stock:
Pertronics installed.
Clifford Headers
12 Volt conversion (rebuilt generator wiring for 12V, new volt regulator, new light bulbs,)
I am stumped and frustrated. Any advice or help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil
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Comments
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How old is the gas?0
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Within the last month or 20
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Replace the condenser with a new one and see what happens. Some times they go bad with age. Also give it a squirt of starting fluid. Some times they just need a boost. Keep us posted on what works.
Gene.
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Forget the condenser idea. I forget the Pertronics doesn't have a condenser.
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Check the carb float to see if it's got fuel in it. A crack can develop in the float, then fuel gets in and makes it ride low, raising the fuel level. That causes fuel to drip into the manifold when the car's sitting, and could be why the plugs are showing wet.0
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Squirt a little oil in each cylinder, you may have washed all the oil off the rings causing low compression.0
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If you just installed the Pertronix I bet you have the timing set for # 6 instead of #1.0
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I will check the float. The carbs were rebuilt and the car did run a month ago, although rough , but I will check again.
Regarding the #6 vs #1 timing. I checked it last night and the number one cylinder spark plug wire on the distributor, is in line with the rotor tab on the cap and the flywheel "white" mark is in view with the metal pointer. So I think that the timing is fairly close and not 180 degrees out. Hard to check timing when the engine is not running but I will put my timing light on it.
The oil in the cylinder sounds interesting, that can't hurt to try.
Thank you,
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Didnt you say it was running a few days ago ? Now you go out there and it wont start . Wet plugs generaly mean fouled plugs. Try removing them and dring them off with a propane porch. Reinstall and try restarting car. Other things that seem to fit the situation is the Petronics device has lost its mind ,or timing chain has jumped a cog,
Roger0 -
Regarding the #6 vs #1 timing. I checked it last night and the number one cylinder spark plug wire on the distributor, is in line with the rotor tab on the cap and the flywheel "white" mark is in view with the metal pointer. So I think that the timing is fairly close and not 180 degrees out. Hard to check timing when the engine is not running but I will put my timing light on it.
I agree that if the petronix is what you did different since it last started, start looking there, you have spark so go to the timing.
check and be sure you are on the compression stroke when approaching the mark. you have fuel, you have spark, if you have compression it should at least try. between the two adjustments you could get adjusted to fire on udc of the exhaust stroke.
also if you have tried for this for a while you are liable to have a manifold full of fuel that you need to dry up before it will run pulling the carbs and stuffing rags in can help. frustrations and firing 180 out will cause severe flooding0 -
Take all your plugs out, then put your thumb hard against the #1 plug hole and have someone bump the starter and when your thumb is pushed up, turn motor by fan belt till pointer lines up then check if #1 wire is lined up with rotor. Do not over ride the compression stroke. Walt.0
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Maybe I missunderstood , was the car working fine and you installed the Petrinics and now it wont run?
Roger0 -
I removed the Carbs last night and have stuffed rags into the manifold to help "Dry" out the manifold.
Took out spark plugs as well.
Tonight I will do the timing check.
The car was running 4 weeks ago and the Pertronics unit was already installed and the car ran.0 -
I always start from the premise that it is something simple.......Most likely gas or spark. no need to tear the engine apart and then create new issues. Check one sysem at a time and test it,then go to the next most possable cause of problem.0
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Was it raining or damp the day this happened , or the day before?
possible bad ditributor cap or wire and than you" flooded" the engine.
Oil in cylinders should help get you going along with the other suggestions.
Look inside your cap for possible problem.0 -
Did you install the coil that came with the Pertronix. They are matched..0
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I do not remember if the coil was purchased from Pertronics at the same time. I will have to check my paperwork.
I do have a spare distributor cap that I could switch out if I see any problems with the existing cap.
Thanks0 -
Just to move back a bit...
When you engage the starter, it turns as fast as it did before? Not sluggishly? (In other words, could the battery / ground connections be bad?) Is there a cough or anything from the engine, indicating it "wants" to catch? Had you tried spraying in starting fluid just to see if it could possibly be a fuel problem?
Hard to believe the timing chain would have jumped a cog at the very moment you turned it off last time, so I'm guessing this is something dirt-simple.0 -
Back to the weather question, if it was a damp, rainy day the problem could be old plug wires. More likely in those condiotions than a distributor cap (unless it's cracked!)0
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No problems on the starter, spins fast.
I am going to run through all the suggestions one at a time this weekend and something will work. Already started to "dry out" the engine for any extra fuel that might have deposited.
Thanks0 -
Lots of suggestions to check. You stated that you added headers, this requires the removal of the original exhaust manifold. Re-installation requires care to assure you have complete seal for these parts. A vacumn leak will create conditions which will keep the engine from starting. Also, one of your replies leads me to assume your intake is a Hudson Twin-H. These manifolds are known to crack and if reinstalled without the stock exhaust will be stressed and potentially crack. Finally, the Twin-H manifold has casting plugs which are steel and rust out. Failure of these plugs will again cause a leak which can cause the engine to not start.0
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Phil,
How about asking one of your local chapter members to come over and give you a helping hand. It might be something that fresh eyes might be able to see right off.
You said that you have spark, but do you have the spark plug wires on the correct plugs?
John0 -
These old girls are pretty simple air-fuel-spark and unless damaged
they'll run pretty much all day.
You can't get it started..so whats it doing?
Does it crank and fail to "feel" like it wants to run - Maybe a couple stumbles and hiccups?
OR does it crank and just "nothing" happens...turns over endlessely without trying to start at all?
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