Study on oil
Browniepetersen
Senior Contributor
Not that this is news to anyone, but I thought I would pass it on:
"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating
oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out
"torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of popular
penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque required to
remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.
Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ......................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix...................... 53 foot pounds
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Comments
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ATF I assume is automatic transmition fluid? And I assume acetone is acetone. What is the ratio of the mix or can you buy this off the shelf? Bare with me I am out of the loop on a lot of this stuff.0
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I was told be an old millwright who had learned from an old mechanic that Used ATF was the best penetrant available. I assumed it aplied to fluids before all the stabilizers and aditives we have today. Perhaps acetone breaks down the additaves and provides the benefits of usage perhaps even moreso.0
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I have had a 50/50 mix trying to unstick the motor in my 52 Ambassador with 43k miles for about 10 weeks. It was well stored for only 41 years but no miracle yet. I'll let you know if it works.0
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Boothguy, did you fill the engine completely up or just put in the top of cylinders?
reason I ask is that I have found some engines will lock up in the rod pin area and that locks the piston in place.0 -
Brownie, The very best penetrating oil I have ever used is called " Freeway " it is made in England. Our shop in San Diego was Rolls Royce Aircraft Engines warranty site and it was the only approved brand we could use. It is by far the very best. The cost of Freeway at that time was around $95.00 a gallon and at that price I was looking for a less costly product. A old race buddy told me about the ATF and acetone mixture which I have been using at home ( but not on Rolls Royce aircraft engines, not approved ) for at least twenty years. The mixture I use is 50/50 and is the second best penetratent have ever used. The third best for me has been Kroil. Hope this helps Merry Christmas to you and yours. buzz0
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@Kdancy: Boothguy, did you fill the engine completely up or just put in the top of cylinders?
reason I ask is that I have found some engines will lock up in the rod pin area and that locks the piston in place.
This is a very good advice from you cause, I thought my engine was stuck, nothing moved. Had put oil in cylinders and nothing happened. When, I don't know why, I removed the water pump, I found everything was ok. The fact is: The impeler, inside the water pump, was glued with rust to the motor. I just sanded the rust and the motor started easily... Michel0 -
I found a 202 Jet engine condemed as "Stuck" was the same way. Pump impeller rusted back to motor front. Very good and tight V-belt and starter wouldnt budge it,
Roger0 -
I just filled the area above the pistons through the spark plug holes, removed the belts, starter and rocker arm shaft, sprayed the valves with oil, tried to get it down the guides,Had to tap a couple of valves to get them to pop up. Using a crowbar on the flywheel to the point I'm worried about the teeth breaking off. Oil looks good as does the antifreeze that came out of the radiator. Hadn't thought about filling the whole engine with the mixture, how much would it take to fill it? Would it stay in long enough to reach the top? Not sure what my next move is. The engine is so clean I just can't believe there is anything major wrong with it.0
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I sprayed a bit of WD-40 in the spark plug holes. While I had the radiator off and the generator in for rebuild I put a wrench on the flywheel and it turned with no effort. The water pump is free as well. Plan to pull the pan this week to check under side of engine before I start it up.0
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THANKS FOR THE OIL INFO BROWNIE I'M A ''Kano Kroil'' MAN WHEN I RESTORED BABY ( 50 PACEMAKER CV) THE CAR HAD SAT OUT FOR 40 YEARS I SPRAYED EVERY BOLT AND NUT ON THE CAR WITH KROIL AND I DID NOT BRAKE ANY BOLYS OR HAD NONE STRIP I WAS REALLY CAREFULL WITH THE TOP PARTS AND SOAKED THEM FOR ABOUT A WEEK 2 TIMES A DAY WITH OUT BRAKING ANY THING IT MADE A BELEAVER OUT OF ME WHERE WOULD I BUY Acetone??0
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Ace Hardware sells it.0
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Some Freds and maybe other dollar stores. Good luck, Bob0
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Home depot sells it by the gallon in the paint dept.0
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For those of you who have spent a good deal of time in the machine shop world or painting cars you have been introduced to the world of carbon based chemical solvents. MEK, TCE, paint thinner or reducer you have most likely been introduced to acetone. Acetone is distilled and is great for desolving plastic or urithane materials in paint. Some years ago it was identified as an agent that could cause cancer and for all but small amounts now sold in paint stores it is all but gone. These carbon based cleaners were often found in machine shops and used for cleaning metals after the machining process. Acetone is one of the more pure forms of the carbon based cleaners and is great for desolving things like hard grease, axel grease that has been applied and allowed to dry on surfaces like chrome are easily removed with acetone. Of the three that were most common, (MEK, TCE and acetone) acetone is the only one still being manufactured and available to the public. It has a strong smell and prolonged exposure can cause you to be lite headed and disorented (very painful drunk effect.) In the aerospace industry we would put it in degreasers, bring it to a boil, and dip parts in it or the heated vapor (i.e. vapor degreaser). So, There you have it-more than you needed or wanted to know.0
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If you are looking only for a very small amount of acetone at home
grab the wife's nail polish remover as that is acetone based
Mike0 -
Doc, far be it from me to question a PHD Chemist. My claim to fame is simply based on 44 years as a Design Engineer, Quality Engineer and Safety and Mission Assurance Manager working on the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters. My Masters Degree was in management so I am way behind you on technical issues. I am now retired 2010), but have written more than one MSDS defining the properties of the carbon based chemicals. The term most often used for these chemicals is "Suspected carcinogenic." And, that is the major controling factor that we used within our manufacturing facilities at ATK. We were over concertive with an attitude of better safe than sorry. And; just for the record (not that it is important), I have had more than one MEK headache. However with that said, I have no arguement with you on the subject. I am simply excited that you took the time to educate us on the properties, uses and effects of carbon based chemicals. And, in some ways you have made me feel much smarter. Thanks,0
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Brownie-I've had that MEK headache for three days. I stripped a chair and refinshed it for the wife.I think it makes the brain swell , sure feels like it.
Used alcahol to clean things up , it seems just as hard on the head as the MEK.0 -
Sorry for the spelling,can't get back in to change it.0
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Tim and Brownie,
Thanks for the insight into the chemicals and solvents that are present on our world. I'm glad also that we don't have solid rocket boosters in our automobiles.
John Forkner0 -
We wont need to worry about all this technical stuff much longer. Third world countries such as ours will have no further use for it . . .
Roger0 -
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING.
WHY IS IT THAT AS WE GET OLDER MANY OF US THINK THAT THE USA IS GOING TO HELL, YET SOMEHOW SOMEWAY WE CONTINUE TO BE THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD TO LIVE.0 -
Sorry to make this a political rant, but.........
The President of the U.S. can make all this happen!
Executive Orders 10990 & 10998 allow the government to take over all modes of transportation, highways and seaports, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all seaports, and waterways.
Executive Order 10995 allows government to seize and control of communication media
Executive Order 10997 allows government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals
Executive Order 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms
Executive Order 11000 allows government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision
Executive Order 11001 allows government to overtake all health, education and welfare functions
Executive Order 11002 designates the postmaster general to operate a national registration of all persons
Executive Order 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft
Executive Order 11004 allows the Housing and Finance authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations
Executive order 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways, and public storage facilities.
Executive order 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning gives authorization to put all executive orders in effect in times of increased international tensions and economic financial crisis
Executive Order 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.
Executive order 11921 allows the federal emergency preparedness agency to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money into US financial institutions in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the president, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation.
Will the POTUS ever use these? Who knows? I hope we never find out, but in the immortal words of Rahm Emanuel, "never let a good crisis go to waste".
Time to get off my soapbox.
Kevin C.
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Very interesting and educational about the carbon based chemicals. Not my field of expertise and I learned something. Kevin, its scary about the power the government has accumulated over the years. Tom- Wa-, I do think the sky is falling. This country is still the greatest to live in but like all civilizations in the history of the world,the path we are taking is no different. The world today is total different than when I was young. Morally, ethically, econmically,etc. I have had the opportunity since retiring to do some charitable work with needy families. Years ago the attitude was different than today. People back then seemed to really appreciate the help we gave them to get them back on their feet. People today think they deserve help. Its their right to get this help. In other words its my right to get this help and I expect it. Instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions, they think they are victims or its someone elses fault that they are in this situation. I never thought I would see the day that people that were successful financially were deamonized like they are today. Thats enough of my soapbox. I had better get off before I fall off.0
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Yes today "Success" is a dirty word ,and someone with a pension they worked 30 years for has an "Entitlement" that should be taken away.
Sorry but I just dont understand . . .0 -
NO! NO! thats not what Im trying to say at all. Have a Merry Christmas.0
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I doubt seriously that anyone other than the majority of todays elected politicians confuse "entitlements" with earned retirement. What kind of wackos would lump earned social security and pension funds in with generations of welfare familys and illegal aliens?
Only those who have an agenda...We should not talk of "entitlements" when what we really disdain are free goverment hand outs designed to support a whole class of people with the sole purpose of garnering more votes come election time.0 -
I guess the part of this whole system that has me a bit miffed is that all american dream that permits us to work hard, save, invest right and then when we retire we live on easy street the rest of our lives. What a great dream where you can go from entry level to management by minding your business and working hard. Then government comes in, closes down your program. 90 percent of your company gets laid off, your over 65 so you go out and look for work and you are overqualified, over experienced and old so you cannot even find an entry level job other than at the front door of Walmart. You have built the good life so now it is time to sell off as many major assets as you can so you can live within your income. Now, I do not mind any of that. I am excited that I can make that happen--But, what does the government do when they find themselves overextended. Yep, they tax more, take away money that we have been forced to pay into programs that take care of others and then just tell us that there is nothing else they can do. And, then from their fancy vacation spots (man would I like a vacation) they tell us that we have not given enough and that there are others starving, homeless, uneducated, and uninvited guests within out country that the government wants to give housing, food and life elements to them all within givernment programs. Yea, sometimes I get a little miffed. But, I am just selfish.0
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I was refering to the recent political campign where the term "Entitlement" was applied to retirees on pention programs & social security the same as welfare recipiants.0
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