single lever transmission
Comments
-
No problem, thanks for the help. By the way I do see a few T90 Jeep shifters on ebay. That would be a cleaner setup than what I have been doing. Like you said it maybe simpler?????0
-
Cleaner in the sense that the lever's not so far back, and there are less "doo-dads" mounted to the side of the transmission. But you will still have to go into the transmission to remove or modify a couple things. (see the e-mail I just sent you.)
Maybe you should just keep the setup you've just devised, set it aside and move along with your restoration. By the time you're ready to finish everything up, one of those "cable type" single lever overdrives may have fallen into your hands, and then you won't need to do any modifications!0 -
Couple of things, Wanderer-
Where did you get the floor shift conversion? Is it a "generic" designed to adapt to about anything? I can see how you could make a new mounting bracket to get it further forward, above the OD solenoid, if you wanted to try to make it work. It would sit higher, but I'm thinking a taller "boot" would help cope with that.
Also, you should have some provision for locking out the OD when you shift into reverse- something that moves the rail out of gear. You might get by by just remembering to take it out of OD whenever you go into reverse, but as I understand it, you don't get any second chances- one reverse move with OD on, and you've destroyed the unit. I think I could go 3 trips, maybe 4 tops, before I forgot.
Also, Jon, the Jeep shifter idea- it would only work on 2 levers, right?0 -
Herman, if you can do this, measure the double lever column parts and see if you can make it work. The first place is to check the length of the tube in comparison to the single lever factory tube for the truck?. This will tell you where to start modifying. Hope this helps0
-
Mike, I believe that the Jeep floor shifter is only supposed to work on the Borg-Warner-built manual transmission (1952-54). The B-W was also used in Jeeps and Studebaker trucks (along with other non-floor-shift vehicles). And that is why you can use the Jeep and Stude floor levers. The "cable" transmission was built by Hudson and it is an entirely different animal so, no, the Jeep shift lever would not work in this. (At least, that is what I am hearing; be aware that I know nothing about post-war cars except what I hear from others!)0
-
To answer the question about floor shifters, I offer the following information saved from 2007 discussion between Don Pratt and Mark Hudson.
HUDSON FLOOR SHIFTER FOR a STEPDOWN USING a T86 double lever and OD
Need help with floor shifter
Don Pratt December 2007
Hello all,
I need help finding the proper floor shifter for my three speed Trans w/OD. I have a 51 pacemaker, but my trans is a later model two lever type. I have a floor shift installed now, but I had to modify it to get it to go into all gears. It shifts fine now, but won’t go into reverse with the OD engaged. I know that I could go back to the column shift, as I still have the original Trans as well, but I want the top loader type floor shift.
Thanks,
Don
I had a single lever (It had one lever and one cable to control the shifts) Trans installed before, it shifted into reverse with the overdrive engaged. I think this was the only way to park the car in gear and have the Trans hold it in position. I learned this the hard way (my e brake didn't work as well as I thought.eek: Anyway, I think the reverse gear is not moving into position completely. The shifter that I have was not an exact fit. I had to move and re drill one of the forks to get the right spacing, but maybe the throw still isn't exactly right. I'll try to mess with it some more, but I know of this being done as a direct bolt in, just remove the top cover, install the stick shift. (I have already removed the original forks from the side of the trans.
I'm not sure what the floor shifter I am using. It was one that we got with a bunch of Hudson transmissions and other parts. It was not installed in any of them, but looked very similar to one that was installed in another transmission that was in the lot of parts. Of course that Trans with the stick installed was sold, and we were left with only the parts. The Trans that is installed in my car now is the later two lever type. The one I removed was the single lever/cable type. I was also of the impression that the single lever type would not work with the floor shift.
Hey Don, hope all is well in the south. The double lever Trans can be fitted with a floor shifter. I think, not for sure nut you can use one from a slant six, 3spd.trans.I really think that you can probably use any 3 spd. Shifter from the 60's? Thinking about it, you could probably get onto the Studebaker board and get one from someone there. Studebaker used the T-86E Trans also and they had floor shifters on them. Just a thought and possible lead.
Thanks everyone for all your help, I will look into the Studebaker lead for the correct part. In the mean time my installed shifter is working with the exception of the reverse problem when the overdrive is engaged. Not really such a big deal. (As if my poor car didn't still need just about everything else.) At least it runs and drives. My dad has been helping me out with most of the work on getting the car back on the road safely. (READ HE HAS BEEN DOING ALL OF THE WORK WHILE ASK THE DUMB QUESTIONS: eekHopefully some of you will come out and see the progress at his meet in sunny south Florida in February. I will post an invitation to all when I figure out the best way to do it. We have HET members and Hudson fans from all over come out every year. There are hotels nearby and RV parking on site, as it is usually a two day affair. Sorry I got a little off subject, and thanks again for everyone's help.
From Mark Hudson
The correct floor shifter is from a Jeep transmission. You can buy them new for $100. The transmission type is the T-90 and T-86 Borg Warner.
Studebaker pickups used the same T-86.
There is a problem with the OD and using the floor shifter from a Jeep or any other transmission. You absolutely do not want to take a chance on having your transmission in reverse with the OD engaged. Even if you kick out the solenoid, there is a chance the OD will be in. If you by chance do try to back up in reverse with the OD engaged, you'll crush your overriding clutch in the OD unit and lock the transmission permanently.
Two ways you can fix this.
1) Always pull out the OD cable and lock the transmission into direct drive before you put it in reverse. These moves the OD lock out rod into direct. This doesn't require any modifications to the shifting mechanism, but does require a good memory - don't forget to pull out the OD cable.
2) Modify the 1st/Reverse shifter fork to operate the internal OD lockout rail.
When you take off the top plate, work your 1st/Reverse shift lever. You'll notice that the shifter paddle also moves a rod back and forth to lock the OD unit into Direct as you shift into reverse. This is the same rod you pull in and out by cable, but automatically does so by the reverse shifter fork inside the transmission. This rod shifting makes in impossible to be in OD and reverse at the same time. It’s also what makes your car stay parked when in OD and left in reverse. If your OD cable is in and you park your car in a forward gear, she'll roll away like it’s in no gear at all.
The best way to accommodate the automatic OD lockout is to leave the 1st/reverse side shifter mechanism in the transmission minus the detent balls. Mill the paddle forks of the 1st/reverse side shifter half its thickness. Mill the top shifter fork for 1st/Reverse half the thickness on the opposite side. It doesn't really matter which fork you make the front or back, just be sure and mill the two complementary to each other. They should be milled such that you can ease the top shifter down and the milled fork slide into the collar of the 1st/reverse gear along with the milled side shifter paddle.
The milling process will take some pre-measurement and planning. Be sure you are keeping the overall fork thickness the same and parallel across the top shifter fork arms. You may have to mill more or less than half to keep things in alignment - measure twice and cut once! I like this arrangement because your side shifter arm can be used for a back-up light switch.
Mark
Mark thanks for the plan on milling down shift fork and leaving the side fork in, I may try that to solve the OD lock out problem. It's great to have all this expertise and know how available to relative novices like myself. You are all a big help to the rest of us.
Don
0 -
Wow, really good information.0
-
Thanks for posting that, Oldfarmer- I printed it and will add to my "archives". I really would like to do a floor shift, and I think the 2 lever plus Jeep shifter looks like the way to go.0
-
Herman, I spoke to the Hudsonite in West Virginia who dropped a Jeep shift lever into a 2-lever (Borg-Warner) transmission, several years ago. His transmission was NOT an OD, so he doesn't know how to deal with the "reverse rod" problem. As far as that goes (using the 2-lever with a Jeep / Stude floor shifter) I would follow the advice above, as shown in the exchange between Don Pratt and Mark Hudson.
A much simpler (relatively!) alternative would be to simply scrounge up a StepDown steering column with manual shifter and fit that to the truck. The linkage might have to be lengthened or shortened but essentially you'll have what you need without delving deep into the transmission (as you would if you wanted the Jeep floor shift) or using the aftermarket side-shifter (which you now have).
Best of all would be if you can find a nice cable-type (Hudson) overdrive. That's why you might want to concentrate on other aspects of your restoration and put the transmission issue aside for the time being; one of these transmissions might show up in the next few months, solving your problems completely.
I assure you that every aspect of restoring an old Hudson pickup is NOT as difficult as this transmission adaptation problem. It's just that fitting a 2-lever transmission into a 1947-earlier Hudson isn't an everyday thing. It's been done before, but not so often that there is a ready-made procedure that everyone knows!0 -
True , the most common swap into a truck I would guess is the 308 and Hydromatic,
Roger0 -
Keep it simple....Come down to Florida for a vacation and I'll give you a single lever OD tranny. The input shaft is buggered up where it goes into the pilot bearing. Either replace the whole shaft or have it turned down and a bushing pressed on it to bring it back up to the correct dimension. It worked great in my 49 Superdore until I replaced it rather than repair it. The only problem was a slight clutch chatter at start up due to the boogered shaft.0
-
Thanks everyone. Good input so far. Interesting thoughts from Roger about the 308 and Hydromatic setup. I have that setup complete with the steering column. I was told that setup was like re inventing the wheel, so abandoned it early on. I guess I should hang on to it in case I become more knowledgeable in the future or find someone who can assist with doing that. It is easy now for me to see why Hudson people tend to have so many parts. Options are plentiful. Thanks Jon for the encouragement.0
-
I had a 47 with the 308 & dual range Hydro for a couple years .And did a lot of tinkering oround on it but was not the one who put it in there. The steering column was out of a Hornet and Im not sure if the steering box was or not.
I know the engine almost touched the big nut on the Pitman arm it was so tight a fit. And I believe the crossmember under the transmission was added or moved.
It was done right though , everything worked including the reserve & emergency braking. So it can be done but is a project yes,
Roger0 -
This is what I decided to go with. It is a jeep shifter, that I picked up on ebay for $35. Thanks everyone for the support.0
-
Glad to see it worked, Herman! (I assume you devised a way that it locks out the overdrive in reverse, too.)0
-
That means it should fit the Jet & Nash bodied Hudson also (same basic transmission)
Roger0 -
wanderer23464yahoocom, Thanks for sharing your accomplishments. There are always alternatives to the norm and you have shown us all how to get the task done. Happy New Year0
-
The trans that came with my 202 was a B/W T96. What is the difference in units and would it affect using the Jeep shifter?
Kevin C.0 -
Thanks, Someone on this board suggested looking for information on the studebaker website, which is what I did. I went to this site www.studegarage.com/overdrive.htm. I left the reverse fork in place and had the shifter fork cut down so as not to rub against it. Hopefully if I ever get the car back together it will work as it is suppose to. I had to take it back out, because it would not line up with the clutch assembly. Unfortunately I used a clutch tool NOT A HUDSON ONE so it does not go in correctly. Have not be able to find one locally. A few here have suggested the clutch alignment tool is not needed, but not having much luck without it. This setup prevents you from mating the engine and tranny outside the car and putting it in as one unit. Always something right. I do not know if this would work with the T96 tranny as it has a 4 bolt cover and it looks wider, but others more experienced than me may be able to help.0
-
I'm sure that the right tool is kicking around somewhere in the Washington-Baltimore area, Herman, and I'm sure we can find you one. However, my engine / transmission skills are somewhat lacking so I"m not sure which tool this is. If you can explain it to a novice, we may be able to see who has one.0
-
If you are looking for the clutch alignment tool ,basicly a input shaft from a transmission .I can loan you one if you want to pay the shipping and a deposit,
Roger0 -
How much would that be?0
-
Its heavy but I think I can get it in a flat rate pouch wich is about $5-6.00 . And maybe $15.00 mor to make sure it comes back (deposit). I would of course refund the deposit when it returned,
Roger0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- 36.9K All Categories
- 103 Hudson 1916 - 1929
- 19 Upcoming Events
- 90 Essex Super 6
- 28.5K HUDSON
- 559 "How To" - Skills, mechanical and other wise
- 993 Street Rods
- 150 American Motors
- 172 The Flathead Forum
- 49 Manuals, etc,.
- 78 Hudson 8
- 44 FORUM - Instructions and Tips on using the forum
- 2.8K CLASSIFIEDS
- 599 Vehicles
- 2.1K Parts & Pieces
- 77 Literature & Memorabilia
- Hudson 1916 - 1929 Yahoo Groups Archived Photos