308 engine questions please
Hey guys, I'm pulling the engine out of the 53 7C I bought last Jan. Been working on many many issues and got it driveable this past summer. After about two weeks of driving it started skipping badly so I parked it until today. It had 30 and 40 LBs compression in #3 clys. I set the valves and no change. The engine has funny noises (loud noises) in it when cold, so I decided to pull it out and go thru it. I took the head off and it has a blown head gasket between #3 and #4. See pics. The engine already has 1/2" head bolts, but some of the bolts have large 13/16" heads and some have 3/4" heads but all bolts are 1/2" dia. I will have the block done at the machine shop, valves ground, seats cut, new guides if needed and so on. My questions are when did Hudson start using 1/2" head bolts, do I have to keep all the valves in order even though they will be ground and the seats cut. The engine has been bored .030 already, how much clearance should there be between the piston and wall at the top of the bore. Sorry for the long post. Thanks, Richie.
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One thing critical to keeping the gaskets from blowing is good bolts and washers . I believe PAULARGETYPE sells coplete sets of the grade #8 bolts and washers. A lot of guys say never use them over but thats maybe a little rash. You have different size heads and dont mention washers so I'd get some . The reason to keep your valves in order is if you are putting them back in worn holes. It sounds like you are going to have new guides and seats so should not matter I would think. Other's will chime in if I'm wrong ,
Roger0 -
Roger, all the bolts have washers. I'll number the valves anyway just in case the guides are OK and the valves will go back where the belong, better safe than sorry. Thanks Roger. Richie0
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Fabricate yourself a valve board - a board about the same length of the engine with holes drilled in it and marked what valve and where it came from. As you pull the valves just stick them in the correct hole.
You can save on space by using a 1x6 or 1x8 - then you can put the exhaust valves in one line, say along the top edge of the board and the intakes on the bottom overlapping slightly to fit. Shorter board that way
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN0 -
Great idea, thanks Alex. Richie0
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Best way on the head bolts is to go with 1/2 in studs with hardened washers. They torque down a little more evenly.
Nothing wrong with regular bolts though. Use a matched set.
The hardened washers keep the bolt head/nut from digging into the metal of the head and giving a false torque reading.
Clean the bolt holes in the block and use anti seize on the studs/bolts.
While the block is out make sure all the coolant holes/passages in the block and head are open and clean them out if you need to.
A good grade 1/2 inch bolt or stud can be used over and over at the low torque settings on a Hudson.
The bolts on most engines made today are the type for one use only, they stretch when torqued down and you have to throw them away and start over.
Valve guides don't cost much, I'd go ahead and install all new guides while the engine is down just for cheap insurance, just in case.0 -
Wano1949, thanks for all your info. I plan to have the block boiled out and do all the necessary things to make it right. I have a shop near by that is owned by an old timer that knows flatheads very well. Thanks again wano1949. Richie.0
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Real cold in Las Vegas...I'VE BEEN WORKING ON '56 Hornet Twin-H; ENGINE TURNS OVER GOT SPARK HOWEVER ENGINE IS GOING TO NEED REBUILD, HAS VERY WEAK COMPRESSION BAD RINGS POSSIBLE FROM SITTING, BUT I Love Twin-H set-up. Have already rebuilt starter, distributor, new plugs and wires, if I can get space inside garage next week, we plan to pull engine and transmission, quick question, it it easier to remove hood before doing so or can we pull both engine and transmission without hood removal? I realize 1956 FOUR DOOR Hudson isn't most desireable car to restore, however if after engine and transmission rebuild, I may go forward or try and find a rust free step down? First things first, I know I'll have alot of questions and to all who answer, I'll say thank you in advance...Another concern is living in overheated desert, after I pull head, remove freeze plugs, any recommendations on water jacket, I have two cast iron and one aluminum heads and will order from PaulTooLarge grade 8 -1/2 bolts; more next week.
Ray0 -
I would recommend taking off the hood. Mark it before removal to aid in replacing it in the same place.You will need the room above the engine for the cherry picker to operate.0
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That motor can be used in a stepdown with the proper adapter but that transmission wont fit without major changes. Your car has sealed driveshaft and the Stepdown has an open driveline. Dont forget to get new grade #8 washers for your head bolts. Thats probaly mor imprtant that new bolts (if the bolts are still in nice shape ). If you can find a new water jacket go ahead and try to pull that one out if you want and check it ( I wouldnt unless your going to boil the block). They are brass and very thin so chances are if its not bad it will be asfter you mess with it.
If you are saying it wont start due to low comression you might squirt a little light oil or ATF in each spark plug hole .That will help seal the cylinders and might help.
You will get many opinions on the head question. I would guess most guys favor the iron head in general but either can blow gaskets if not perfect or installed properly. The big plus that an alluminium head does have over the iron one that is not debateable is heat dissipation.
I had one on a 254 and drove it 15,000 miles before selling it .No leaks ever and it was not babbied . I used Walt's instructions to install the gasket ,dont recall the brand gasket I used now .
Roger0 -
Looking at the engine this morning I found that I can put an .011 feeler gauge between the piston and cylinder wall at both the top and botton of the cylinder. I think it should be .0015 to .0025 or am I mixed up? Maybe that loud deep noise when cold was piston slap, anyone have a thought on that? Thanks. Richie.0
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At 11 thou it would certainly knock!0
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Before I did my engine over 20 years ago, I had a gasket leak in the same place. Since the head was off I checked the cylinder diameter as well as the bore. Appearently in the past someone did a rebuild... 010 over on the bore, but standard size pistons across all 6. Could be that the builder ordered 010 pistons and got standard, and never miced them. A trusting soul.0
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Should be a date code cast into the block directly below the distributor.0
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What Ken U-Tex says. Would you like to see a pic of a couple of my old pistons I kept....0
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A few things came up when I ran into head leakage after installation. I learned that when mounting a new gasket, typically "Best" brand, the broader side of the metal rings should go against the block. To be sure things lined up correctly I used two studs at opposite ends of and diagonally inserted into the block to properly align the gasket and the head. The surfaces of the studs were greased. I used studs throughout but if you were using bolts then the studs would be removed after several bolts are started. I applied Permatex Black to all the threads. The nice thing about 7X studs is that coarse threads seat against the block leaving room to mount the head add the washer and nut. Grade 8 washers are a necessity. Before torque was applied I greased the washers and the nuts to minimize shear. For the aluminum head I torqued all nuts to 85 lbs. So far (about 500 miles), so good.0
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Ken U-TEX, Plano, TX
Just give me one day and I will post w/pics0 -
Dougson, good advice, I never knew about the broader side of the metal rings should go against the block. I have used the line-up studs before, I put a slot in the end for easy removal. Thanks for your comment. Richie.0
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