1) resolved; 2) 21st Century Hudson roller timing chain setup

I need these parts to make sure I get the 21st Century roller chain kit-gears are orientated correctly, so I can't possibly mess up the reinstall of the 21st roller chain kit; as, for example, the crank gear can slide on in three (3) different positions -- just want to do it once and do it RIGHT ! -- update; it's all figured out and presented below.

m6ride (Greasemonkey)

maasfh If you have some instructions, please post a set/instructions on here for every one to peruse.

note: I don't want advance of 4*, nor retard of 4*

Also, on the cam gear it has one indent (center-punch'd look); that should be located nearest to crank gear and along the centerline-to-centerline of gears, correct, and in-line with what on the crank gear ?

21st CHAIN: 3 red dots on chain ( two together and a single one ); significance and function ?

21st CRANK GEAR: closest face/hub has indent with slot below/inside for woodruff key; since I want to install w/o retard or advance, do I install gear w/indent aligned w/woodruff key on crank ?

If so, then, next, I turn the crank and align indent closest to the cam gear location above, correct ?

21st CAMSHAFT GEAR: I assume the next step is to install the cam gear on the cam (will only go one POSITION). Next, I assume I turn the indent of the 21st cam gear closest to the crank gear, correct ?

21st TIMING CHAIN: has 2 painted red dots and one painted red dot; how are these to be oriented with reference to the cam gear's indent and the crank gear's indent ? ?

THANKS, any one beside 21st

And suppose the red dots were never on the "gear" or any gears, what is any one to do ?

They both may be sprockets, I'm calling them gears.

Going to the 21st website, I see the single red dot aligns with the single indent (white) on the 21st CAM GEAR -- progress;

Next the 2 red dots on chain straddle one of three white dots on the outer sprocket
( located at 4A, zero or 4R ) of the crank gear. Got it now

hotrodman, this engine had VERY low miles, and the 21st chain and gear look perfect to me for reuse. I'm changing the cam to a stocker, 1/2" head bolts, balancing the complete rotating assy, painting the inside of the engine w/red insulating varnish, and the outside w/Chrysler Industrial Red, plus my machinist is hopefully going to groove-in 2 Singh grooves, each chamber, in top of 232 head -- he will utilize the Sonic Tester as Counsel. If that head won't work I have a 262 and 308 available; regardless I WILL have Singh grooves in my Hudson flathead. Hope to post some photos in case it wouldn't bother the owner of this thread or anyone else. Take care.

maasfh, not sending u any thing, ever .

My chain has 3 red dots, one alone (cam gear) and 2 together (crank gear) ;

m6ride's USER INSTRUCTION GUIDE (see photos below) in bold below:

I. Be sure the #1 piston is at TDC, compression stroke (direct function of the cam position).

The crankshaft on a 4-cycle motor is never 180 degrees off between compression and exhaust when the number 1 piston is at TDC. There are 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation between TDC compression stroke (or the firing position) and TDC exhaust stroke.

The method of determining the difference between the two TDC positions is to set the piston in #1 cylinder at TDC, and look at the intake or exhaust camshaft lobe or the intake or exhaust valve spring for that particular cylinder.

Be sure to first find out which direction that cam is turning (CW on the Hudson).

If both valve springs are not moving, but the exhaust valve spring is the next spring to be compressed at that position, TDC (piston); the cylinder is on compression stroke.

If the exhaust valve spring is about to become fully relaxed, while the intake valve spring begins to be compressed when the cam rotates any further; the piston/cylinder is at TDC, exhaust stroke.

II. INSTALLING the timing chain:

for 3 available options, the single red dot on chain is to align with the single white dot/indent on the cam gear, +

for factory, zero-degree setting, the 2 red dots on the chain are to straddle a single white dot/indent on the crankshaft gear (across from "S3711B", stamped into the hub);

for 4-degrees-Advance setting, rotate the crank gear CW (from zero position) and use both "4A"'s;

for 4-degrees-Retard setting, rotate the crank gear CCW (from zero position) and use both "4R"'s .

If you have a question, just send me a private message and I will explain it to you .

Where are the 3 red dots supposed to be ? => On the chain only, believe ME .

Someone needs to develop a good set of installation instructions with 3 option photos .

It's like-nu old.

See photo; apparently this is how it is supposed to look, or be set up. Look closely and you will agree.

more detail

In a recent mail order to 21st, I sent a note and specifically requested a copy of user installation instructions for the 21st double roller chain/gears kit - it was ignored, totally . That is why I posted this on the forum so maybe someone else, who had already installed one would respond positively.

It's quite ironic that I the kit owner/customer, have presented a correct and rational representation of the way the chain and gears go, of 3 options, not any one else. Clearly the 3 red-painted dots are on the chain ONLY - they would not change position on their own; no rational purpose in examining that, nor changing their current location !

The "secret" herein is that if there are any instructions available, any where, no one yet has made a copy and presented it, at least that is my conclusion, so far . People in Australia, or Germany, South America or else where, deserve not to be mislead and only the FACTS should be presented herein, including a set of 21st USER INTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS .

I have never gone around behind any one's back; on the contrary I was looking else where, here, as my 2nd option .

I feel confident that it is I who has presented the only rational and non-misleading information, irrefutably, as no one has surfaced to say that my presentation is incorrect --

no shirt, no shoes, no problem ! ! !