175ci engine

[Deleted User]
edited May 2014 in HUDSON
Got my engine back from the machine shop last week . They did all the machine work and installed the cam,crank,pistons and valves. Pistons ,rings and valves were new. I have installed the oil pan, Exhust and intake manifolds, then put the head on. I turned the engine over by using a bar on the bolt that holds the crankshaft pulley on but I couldn't get more then 30 pound of pressure on all the cylinders. Is this common for turning it over by hand or do I have a problem somewhere. The machine shop I used is rated very high which is why I had them do the intricate work. I wll appreciate any comment that you can give me

Comments

  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    Compression figures are usually warm engine at (starter) cranking speed. I'm surprised you got that much!
  • wano1949
    wano1949 Senior Contributor
    The engine has to be turning over pretty fast (on the starter), for the valves to seal quick enough to retain 
    compression pressure in the cylinder. It's hard to do, if not impossible, by hand cranking with a bar or ratchet.
  • Thank you for the comments. I guess I was expecting to much from the hand cranking
    Attached are a couple pics. One from last year and one from the present. When I put it back together the body will be painted a California cream, which is a 40 Hudson color.
    It is listed as a 1940 Hudson six deluxe Victoria coupe
  • PAULARGETYPE
    PAULARGETYPE Senior Contributor
    I TOO HAD A 175 ENGINE I HAD IN MY 1939 112 I CHANGED THE CRANK SHAFT AND THE RODS SO I COULD MAKE IT A 212 I HAD DROVE MINE BEFORE I REBUILT AND IT WAS OK BUT NOTHING TO BRAG ABOUT WHEN I DID THE REBUILD WITH THE DIFFERENT CRANK AND RODS THE ENGINE RAN SO MUCH BETTER I HAD A FRIEND WHO WENT THE ORIGINAL RUTE ( 175) HE COULD NEVER KEEP UP AFTER THE REBUILDS  FROM THE OUT SIDE WHO KNOWS BUT YOU ?? 
  • hudsontech
    hudsontech Senior Contributor
    After the 1916-1929 Super Six, the straight 8 engines and the 212 the 175 was a disappointment.  It really wasn't up to Hudson standards - IMHO something they cobbled together to have a different size 6.  Certainly they could have done better.  Even the original Essex 4 was a better engine.

    But that's my opinion.

    Hudsonly,
    Alex Burr
    Memphis, TN
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
     The Hudson 112 was a very popular car here in N.Z., particularly as taxis.  They were nimble, fast, roomy, and economical.   And they had a higher top speed than the bigger motor, paradoxically, probably due to less friction with the lower piston speed.  Compared to similar cars like the Studebaker,  Graham, Plymouth, and De Soto they were better performers.  And though they had less power they were less troublesome, much like the Pacemakers turned out to be in the Step-Down years.   Detuning does have some benefits.  And if the timing gear gave out the internals did not self destruct like the 5 inchers. 
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    Looking at the original English market Terraplane road tests, the 175 was a lot slower accelerating than the 212.

    1939 with the small motor 0-60 in 23.9 secs and top speed 73mph on 4.55 axle.
    1938 with the big motor  0-60 in 20.5 secs and top speed 81.8mph on 4.11 axle.

    30-50 in top 13 secs compared to 8 secs.

    These numbers would naturally vary a little depending on road test conditions, the individual car, the compression ratio, fuel and state of tune and last but not least the driver and stopwatch operator.

    I know which I'd rather have........a 212 with high (7:1) compression. The Sydney Morning Herald 1936 road test vehicle on this ratio did 0-60 in 15 secs and 10-30 in top in 6.4 secs. That's pretty quick I'd say, in fact breathing down the neck of the '33 Terraplane Eight.
  • Frankvintagefullflowcom
    Frankvintagefullflowcom Senior Contributor
    A 175/212 conversion involves a few other parts (carb, manifold, dipper tray, etc.) but is very doable, esp. if you have a donor engine. AND, you get to smoke the competition while retaining your original S/N. The power cranked out by our '47 C-6 never ceases to impress/please me. I once beat a Small Black Chevy with it. Sweet.
    GC...Aluminum cam gears rule! I wouldn't put a 212 together without one.
    F
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    I've noticed that all the English period road tests state that the 112 had a smaller 67mm bore and the 127mm (5") stroke of the 212 engine which of course is different from the US market 112 which had the 3" (76mm) bore of the 212 and a shorter 4 1/8" (105mm) stroke.

    Surely all these tests over several years cannot be wrong? Are there two different "small" engines then?


  • I agree with you 100%. I love the car the way it is. It was a plain jane in 1940 and I want to keep it that way. Even the new rubber will be black walls. I have also done a 31 plymouth,4 door and kept it as stock as I could, took a while to find a 4 Cly. Engine, but it was worth the effort. I love driving it around town, and talk about being slow!!!!!!!!!!! I like them to run like they did when they were new
  • Frankvintagefullflowcom
    Frankvintagefullflowcom Senior Contributor
    My wild guess as to the 67 versus 76 mm bore question is that it was the result of a typo or dyslexia on the part of some author that was never caught and just became "fact". Hard for me to understand 'cause I never make misteaks.
    F
  • lostmind
    lostmind Expert Adviser
    My wild guess as to the 67 versus 76 mm bore question is that it was the result of a typo or dyslexia on the part of some author that was never caught and just became "fact". Hard for me to understand 'cause I never make misteaks.
    F

    I agree , back in the "70's , many magazines were writing about Hudsons , and the same errors kept being repeated. I blame it on lazy authors , Using someone else's bad research instead of finding their own facts.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    There was indeed a smaller engine for the British Market.  This was 2-23/32" bore and 5" stroke.  Unlike the 3" bore motors, it had water jackets between the cylinders, so was a stronger  block, and less prone to distortion, therefore had no oil consumption problems. It was of course less well performing, so they fitted the 4.55 rear ends to these cars, which gave them the same  performance as the bigger motors, albeit at higher r.p.m.
    The reason for the small bore was the infamous "Horsepower tax" in Britain which was based solely on bore diameter, and  brought the  horsepower to 16.9 R.A.C. rating.   This meant it was cheaper to register each year.
    So it is not an error, you need to research before you jump to conclusions.  Some of these cars must have come to New Zealand, as a while ago in a V.C.C. parts shed I came across a heap of small bore gaskets.
    Geoff 
  • hudsontech
    hudsontech Senior Contributor
    One of the most confusing errors made back-in-the-70's, or so, was the serial number list.  Hudson put out a reference sheet that gave serial numbers from 1910 thru 1927, I think it was.  Trouble is they only dated the entries up to (and including) the 1916 Model G Six-40.  The 1916 Model H Super-Sixes did not carry a date.  There is also some sources from Hudson that says the 1916 Model H was considered by the factory to be a 1917 model even tho it was produced from late 1915 (there are speed records dated in Dec 1915) to mid-1917.  Then it becomes a Model J / 4J and so forth. 
    So many outside sources say that the 1916 Model H was a 1917 model bumping up everything else to around 1920.  Further confusion comes with the models - ie, 1917 J & 4J,   To further confuse things I recently got my grubby little hands on a 1922 Hudson Super-Six parts list.  This lists the Model H, Model J, Model 4J, Model 5M, Model 6M, (and this is interesting) Model "O" to 9 "O", Models 10 "O" to 12 "O" and Series 100,000 up.
    So now we're wondering what the "O" to 9 "O" is - it would be 1919 with 5M and 6M being 1918 models and J / 4J being 1917. 

    For you 1919 Model O fans out there there is a note in this parts list that says there two different styles of side members used on Model "O".

    Hudsonly,
    Alex Burr
    Memphis, TN
  • Frankvintagefullflowcom
    Frankvintagefullflowcom Senior Contributor
    It was a wild guess, not a "conclusion". I'll gladly admit to having made an error and don't mind being corrected.........as long as it's with a smile.
    F
  • terraplane8
    terraplane8 Senior Contributor
    There was indeed a smaller engine for the British Market.  This was 2-23/32" bore and 5" stroke.  Unlike the 3" bore motors, it had water jackets between the cylinders, so was a stronger  block, and less prone to distortion, therefore had no oil consumption problems. It was of course less well performing, so they fitted the 4.55 rear ends to these cars, which gave them the same  performance as the bigger motors, albeit at higher r.p.m.
    The reason for the small bore was the infamous "Horsepower tax" in Britain which was based solely on bore diameter, and  brought the  horsepower to 16.9 R.A.C. rating.   This meant it was cheaper to register each year.
    So it is not an error, you need to research before you jump to conclusions.  Some of these cars must have come to New Zealand, as a while ago in a V.C.C. parts shed I came across a heap of small bore gaskets.
    Geoff
    Interesting. That means the English 112 performance could be significantly different from the US 112 which had a wider bore and shorter stroke. I am guessing that the US configuration would be the better performer due to the wider bore giving perhaps better breathing and of course lower friction from the shorter stroke.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
     Frank, no offence intended, sorry if I was undiplomatic in my comments.    If anyone is interested I have several  "Motor" magazine road tests of these small bore engined cars, which were  marketed right through form 1934 to 1939 in Great Britain. they actually went quite well.
    Geoff 
  • PaulButler
    PaulButler Administrator
    I'd like to see those Geoff. Somewhere hidden away in the loft I have an Autocar road test of a 112 as well which I really must dig out
  • Frankvintagefullflowcom
    Frankvintagefullflowcom Senior Contributor
    We're good.
    I'll admit to having made a "knee-jerk" assessment and was too lazy to do the necessary reading. The bore size being expressed in metric units made the possibility of number reversal jump out at me.
    I am aware that the Brits had a tax system that made such dimensional "adjustments" prudent from a financial (tax) standpoint. Maybe still do.
    Interesting that they created a special casting just for that reason but I suppose it makes sense that 1/2 inch cylinder walls weren't a necessary feature.
    F
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    What say I send the reports to Sam for inclusion in  the W.T.N.?
  • SamJ
    SamJ Senior Contributor
    I had my 40 2-dr for 28 years running the 175...the engine has never been out of the car. It had 38,000 on it when I got it and has about 57,000 now with the new owner. Al Saffrahn rebuilt and installed a 40 od tranny that I acquired about 20 years ago and the car ran comfortably at 55 mph all day long. Always remember that there were no interstate highways in 1940...it was a car built for its time. This car is easy to drive...didn't require much shifting around town...it would pull away in 3rd at 15-20 mph and in 2nd if it was barely rolling. Also great steering with the 1st year of center-point and IFS...
  • barrysweet52
    barrysweet52 Expert Adviser
    I stripped down two old 112 motors today tidying up and to see if any parts were worth keeping. You always see something interesting. Sumps were full of old oil like grease. A pal nut was missing so they used a tab washer to lock one of the big end nuts. The oil level stick had a fancy stamped metal plate attached listing the motor/diff/gearbox oil reqd. It was attached by Motors Ltd an Aust dealer.
This discussion has been closed.