Headers
From what I gather in the posts, there seems to be a shortage of headers. I don't, nor will I ever, have the capability to cast headers, but I would be willing and have the ability to make tubular headers. With an eminent job change rapidly approaching, it would be sometime after that before I could get started, but if the interest is there, I would be willing to produce some. I live close to and am from Nocona, Texas, where I heard that a fellow is making them now. I will get up there and see if I can look at what he is building. I don't have any desire to make a killing off this venture and don't even expect to recoup the labor involved, but I would have to be able to recover my costs. Any interest out there?
Bob
Bob
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Comments
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Yes Bob, I'm interested. Jim Guinn was the fellow who first told me of the Nocona headers and sent me a picture of them. They are not bad looking at all. I was a bit reluctant due to the tube lengths varying so much and I could actually see the welds in the picture, which meant they were huge!
I would really like to see more pictures of them up close. It would probably be a great service to folks who want them to have some better perspective of their construction etc. than a single picture. Maybe have the tube lengths measured and reported, get an idea of the quality of the plate he is using, etc. For the price he was charging at the time, and idea of the overall quality would be great.
thanks,
Mark0 -
Bruce Silva makes a great looking set of headers; he had some for sale at the Reno National H.E.T. meet. His phone number is (916) 451-2305 .Bruce is in Sacramento California.0
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The way I understand, he is actually building these in his muffler shop. I can see why the quality of the welds might not be up to par. I have been welding for over 30 years and should be able to produce something of quality. I am not a header expert, but I do know that the optimum performance is achieved by using equal length runners. I will research this before I proceed. I will try to get up to Nocona in the next couple of months and take a look at what he has to offer. I know that I want a set for my Super Wasp as I am really wanting "true" duals.
Bob0 -
I would be very interested in headers for my 54 Hornet daily driver. I talked to Clifford on this but could not get a date or much info from them. Just let me know when you have some more info. Thanks, Dick0
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I talked to Clifford yesterday they said they will have a new batch of headers in 3 weeks. I am waiting until they have in stock before I order.0
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I have Clifford headers on my '54 with the stock Twin H intake. Rick, you're right in some respects though, I didn't put them on the car so I don't know if any modification to the header flange was necessary or not.0
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51hornetA wrote:I talked to Clifford yesterday they said they will have a new batch of headers in 3 weeks. I am waiting until they have in stock before I order.
That's the same answer I got on the headers January 13th, 2006. I was lucky, the money order I sent off to Clifford was returned due to an addressing problem.
I'm afraid if we wait for them to be stocked, it won't ever happen. In January he said they already had 10 orders for 25 sets intended to be made. Estimated time, 3 weeks - that was in January, its now March and I think Larry has forgotten to flip his calendar. I wonder how many of those 10 orders remain?
The only reason there is a shortage, is because Clifford isn't getting them made on a timely basis. 3-4 weeks, is entirely acceptable given the rarity of this engine. 3 - 4 weeks into infinity, is just not acceptable. I'm kinda glad my money order is sitting on my desk right now.
Personally, I have a shortage of Hudson headers.
Mark0 -
Bob-
I would be interested as well. Where in Texas are you? E-mail me at HETchiltonsNDC@msn.com if you like (drop the HET). I'll be making a trip to Texas soon (Lone Star Roundup in Austin) at the end of March/ Beginning of April.
Russell0 -
Count me in to.0
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Nevada Hudson wrote:Bruce Silva makes a great looking set of headers; he had some for sale at the Reno National H.E.T. meet. His phone number is (916) 451-2305 .Bruce is in Sacramento California.
Bruce Silva's headers look to be top notch, excellent pieces. They are for sale in the WTN's, and look worth every penny of the $750.00 they are priced at. Jig fixtured, TIG welded, this is all of the finest quality and workmanship. If you want a single outlet header for a LWB car - this is probably what you want.
Here's the problem. They are single outlet only, some of us want duals. Also, they are long wheelbase only, which alot of the speed fanatics are messing with shorter wheelbase cars. Performance-wise, I'm not sure which would be the best - a single or dual? We need a multi-fit dual header. I see no reason why a header for the short wheel base cars wouldn't work on a long wheelbase car?
I need a header, badly - and its soon going to be the holdup to my whole engine project. I'm really interested in expediency right now more than anything else.
I talked to a metal fabrication place yesterday that would do small batches of headers and specialize in tubing bends. They needed something to go by and I just don't have any example to give them. If anyone has a good example of a header that would be suitable to use as a pattern, we may have a window here. At least I could use it to get a price estimate. The kicker is that the tubing is not done over a mandrel, its die bent. This means that every bend presents a smaller diameter in the pipe for the duration of the bend. The Nocona headers that was mentioned at the top of this thread are also die bent.
They can also laser cut the header plates, etc. I might be able to get the header plates done cheaper at a local Vo-Ag shop that came by a CNC laser cutter and would take on that duty as a money raiser.
If anybody has a short wheelbase dual outlet header that could possibly be used as a pattern for both cars LWB and SWB - here's our chance. At least we could get a price and know better what we're dealing with. If you can get me a header, this will automaticly rise to the top of the "to do" list.
Send me a PM if you have a pattern, header, whatever - and we'll get this shakin' pronto.
Mark Hudson0 -
Ok, looks like the interest is there. Here is what I am going to do. I will go to Nocona in the next couple of weeks and see what the fellow is making there. If it is decent and would help everyone out, then there would be no need for me to start anything new. If not, then I think we should all put our heads together and put a plan together as to what I should make first and how many. I can get the flanges lazer cut here no problem. I've got a friend that sells Mazak lazers and another friend who repairs them, so I can get a hook up easy there. My main hold up is that I am going to be changing jobs in the next couple of months and I have to get things settled down before I start a new project. I just hope that my new job has a powdercoating line like I have now. That comes in handy.
Bob0 -
Bob,
I too would be interested in headers for my Hudson. However I am needing them for my straight 8!
When you get ready to start the projects, let me know if you want to take on this challenge?
thanks,0 -
750.00 would definately knock me out of the running, I don't feel there is enough gain out of headers to spend that much. The Clifford price seems reasonable considering the low production. Not sure what the wheelbase would have to do with the header. Wouldn't that be in the headpipe length?0
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Actually 464 wheelbase has everything to do with the headers. Hudson made the wheelbase reduction between the A pillar and front wheel actually recessing the block into the firewall on the short wheelbased models. the compartment does not have the room for typical header designed for the long wheelbase which would use long gentle bends for higher efficiency. (though you could sacrifice your passenger's legs and bring the long wheelbase headers through the firewall and floorboard)0
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I guess you learn something everyday. I had no idea that is how they shortened the wheelbase. Seems like the hard way to do it, but I guess it maintained the same passenger room though made the engine compartment a little harde to work in.0
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count me in for a set too. true duals is a must.0
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Duals are fine for looks, but not neccesarily the only way to improve performance. You can do just as well by staying with the single pipe and increasing the diameter. With so many vehicles out there running catalytic converters you are stuck with a single exhaust, unles you are lucky enough to have a car that runs a cat on each bank. Soooo the aftermarket has answered this with larger and larger single exhaust systems. Having worked for Gale Banks Engineering, that is all we did was large single exhaust systems. I am thinking a single 2.75 or 3 inch should flow plenty for a 308 and there are lots of 3 inch mufflers to choose from these days. I would imagine one of the racers on here has experimented with large single exhaust.0
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Direct from the Magnaflow Web Site:
PIPE DIAMETER AND PERFORMANCE
Use the guide below when calculating pipe size for custom exhaust work. Keep in mind that the goal is to improve exhaust flow. In most cases, just changing the restrictive OEM muffler and replacing it with the same size straight-through, Wide Open Performance MagnaFlow muffler will do this job.
To reduce additional backpressure, the OEM exhaust tubing can be replaced with madrel-bent tubing of the same size or one size up from the OEM. As a general rule, you can enlarge the pipe diameter of your OEM exhaust system by 1/4- to 1/2-inch to increase your horsepower. However, any additional increase in pipe diameter is likely to decrease your performance; specifically, low end torque.
Bigger is not always better.
Engine Size Horsepower Muffler Inlet / Outlet Size
Single Exhaust Dual Exhaust
150-200 CID 100 to 150 2" to 2-1/4" 2"
200-250 CID 100 to 200 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" 2" to 2-1/4"
250-300 CID 150 to 250 2-1/2" to 3" 2" to 2-1/2"
300-350 CID 200 to 350 2-1/2" to 3" 2-1/4" to 2-1/2"
350-400 CID 250 to 550 3" to 4" 2-1/2" to 3"
Use as a general guide for engine size and performance.
They Also have "hot rod kits" to build your own Dual Exhaust from mandrel bent tube.
Hope that helps,0 -
That's interesting since if you look at most aftermarket systems they use a bigger outlet and tailpipe than headpipe. When I was at Banks, that was the first stage upgrade, we would offer is a high flow muffler with larger outlet and tailpipe. The next stage would be headers and maybe a larger headpipe depending on the catalytic converter arrangement. My brother and I just put a Gibson system on his Toyota Tacoma and it was a high flow muffler with bigger tailpipe. Headpipe stayed the same and it definatley made a difference. To big a pipe can kill the low end torque but really not with something as big as a 308 inline 6. Killing torque with big pipes is more with smaller displacement high revving engines.0
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