Got my 54 Special

464Saloon
464Saloon Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Neils and I picked up my Hornet yesterday, unfortunately it isn't in as good of condition as I was led to believe. I doubt I will ever by a car again online. It has a fair amont of rust around the rear windows, base of roof and down around the rear wheel wells. Doesn't look so far like any of it has gone through, but it is certainly a concern to me though Neils says it is normal for these cars. I plan to take it to my a buddy of mine who is a painter and another buddy of mine who is strictly a metalworker and get their opinions. I may be worrying too much, I don't know with these cars. Anyway, some other things are wrong with the car where I could use some guidance. The wipers don't work, the radio doesn't work, the temp gauge doesn't work and the clock doesn't work. The horn was also wired to a toggle switch for some reason which is pretty dumb when you consider a horn is generally used in a spur of the moment when it needs to be quickly accessed. So for all you old time Hudson experts, what should I look at first? Are parts available? None of these items are things I can't fix, I am just frustrated that I was looking for a low maintenance driver that I could restore down the road when I get some of my other cars already in process done.



Thanks

Comments

  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    First and foremost, have your metalworker buddy look over the car, especially the frame back around the rear wheels. Despite what you may have paid so far, you don't want to invest an additional dime if frame repairs are gonna cost you three grand alone.



    After you determine the body situation, you can worry about the small stuff. Wipers can be sent off to be rebuilt, proper horn switch (in steering wheel) can be found used, electric clocks can be rebuilt.



    You don't want to spend thousands to restore the ornate woodwork in a historic house, only to discover that the building's structure is termite-ridden and the foundations collapsing!
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    I haven't put the car up on a lift, but I crawled around under it on my back yesterday and everything underneath looks fine. Old and dirty but no rust or rot. The rust is mainly around the base of the roofline, the rear fenders just above the skirts the front of the hood and what apperas to be some surface flaking on the front part of the doors in the jamb itself. I think becaue the door rubber is bad and it is leaking in there. I noticed that when I washed it yesterday. The temp gauge is my next concern. There is a sending unit and it is wired. On these cars, what is the easiest way to determine if I have a sending unit issue or a gauge issue?
  • Jon B wrote:
    First and foremost, have your metalworker buddy look over the car, especially the frame back around the rear wheels. Despite what you may have paid so far, you don't want to invest an additional dime if frame repairs are gonna cost you three grand alone.

    After you determine the body situation, you can worry about the small stuff. Wipers can be sent off to be rebuilt, proper horn switch (in steering wheel) can be found used, electric clocks can be rebuilt.

    You don't want to spend thousands to restore the ornate woodwork in a historic house, only to discover that the building's structure is termite-ridden and the foundations collapsing!
    464Saloon, Jon is correct. I purchased my 50 Pacemaker sight unseen and only when I pulled the driver's rear fender and pulled the goop from the trunk floor edge, did I see that the rot was all the way thru the frame rails. I did find a donor frame and shell for mine here with the help of Hudson Al, but it was a lesson well learned. It sounds like your rust problem is not as bad as mine, though my shell is in excellent shape (just rotten frame rails). Good luck with the car though.

    Jay
  • Yeah, if the car is solid, in terms of structural, you are steps ahead of a lot of these guys working on a hudson. One thing you can count on, is that horns, radios and wipers are easy to fix or repair. Structural items like frame rails are not. If your's is solid, then I wouldn't even worry about the other stuff... matter of fact, I disconnected my wipers long ago, radio has never worked, and I think my horn is sporadic at best. I think the one terminal/wire end is broken off the wire, no big deal, but doesn't seem that important to me. Good news is that my unibody frame is all there and solid as a rock. That alone is the biggest battle with a hudson.
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    The mechanical stuff is petty, I do think it would be good to get the temp gauge going, it just gripes me that I wasn't told about after speaking with the two previuos owners several times by phone and e-mail, both Hudson club members for many years. The underside look pretty good, seems like most of the rust is where trip is attached or there is a channel. Alot of catch places on this car to hold dirt and water. I took an airhose to it after I washed it and all kinds of dirt and grime came out of all these channels and trims. I have a feeling this is the cause of the problems.
  • I have newe temp sender units for ten bucks also 4 or 5 rust free 54 bodies. the trouble with 54s is you cannot unbolt the rear quarteers and look at or repair the frame like an earlier stepdown. the rear fenders are welded on. the rust area over weheels is also hard to repair as they are doubled walls and trap dirt and moisture in between and rust easily. good luck, BILL ALBRIGHT, SO CALS HUDSON DEALER, ALWAYS 20 GOOD HUDSONS ON HAND DO NOT SELL ON E BAY
  • hudsontech
    hudsontech Senior Contributor
    464Saloon wrote:
    The mechanical stuff is petty, I do think it would be good to get the temp gauge going, it just gripes me that I wasn't told about after speaking with the two previuos owners several times by phone and e-mail, both Hudson club members for many years. The underside look pretty good, seems like most of the rust is where trip is attached or there is a channel. Alot of catch places on this car to hold dirt and water. I took an airhose to it after I washed it and all kinds of dirt and grime came out of all these channels and trims. I have a feeling this is the cause of the problems.



    If you want them, I have the Mechanical Specification sheets for 1954 Hudson all, exc. Model 6A - these sheets were issued before they added the 6A's to the line.





    (HET)hester_nec@yahoo.com (drop the HET)



    Luck to you.



    Hudsonly,

    Alex B
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    464Saloon wrote:
    Neils and I picked up my Hornet yesterday, unfortunately it isn't in as good of condition as I was led to believe. I doubt I will ever by a car again online. It has a fair amont of rust around the rear windows, base of roof and down around the rear wheel wells. Doesn't look so far like any of it has gone through, but it is certainly a concern to me though Neils says it is normal for these cars. I plan to take it to my a buddy of mine who is a painter and another buddy of mine who is strictly a metalworker and get their opinions. I may be worrying too much, I don't know with these cars. Anyway, some other things are wrong with the car where I could use some guidance. The wipers don't work, the radio doesn't work, the temp gauge doesn't work and the clock doesn't work. The horn was also wired to a toggle switch for some reason which is pretty dumb when you consider a horn is generally used in a spur of the moment when it needs to be quickly accessed. So for all you old time Hudson experts, what should I look at first? Are parts available? None of these items are things I can't fix, I am just frustrated that I was looking for a low maintenance driver that I could restore down the road when I get some of my other cars already in process done.



    Thanks



    I echo what everyone else has said....solid frame rails is the single most important thing. The sheet metal on the floors you can patch yourself by riveting/welding in some panels if need be. Even some of the most solid '54s might have a little rot around the rear wheel wells just behind the skirt covers....having said that, step-downs are almost never in danger of falling apart as long as the frame rails are good. The first thing I do with almost every Hudson I've gotten is pull out the interior and carpets and Knock off all the loose rust and scale with a drill and wire brush and then attack it all with POR 15 or Eastwood Rust Stop. I give the underside of the car the same treatment ASAP. You need to stop any deterioration before you can begin restoration. As far as some of the other stuff you mentioned....Mechanical clocks seem to rarely work on Hudsons unless you have the fixed. Temp guages likewise rarely seem all that accurate in my experience. Wipers are vacum but a rebuild and /or a good cleanup/lube and a vacum booster go a long way. Horn shouldn't be difficult to figure out but down the road you may consider new wiring. Part are available!!! You just need to contact the right people but even so you'd be surprised what you can find at your local NAPA. Keep posting your aggrivations and I'm sure you'll get all the help we can give. Don't give up, a lot of these little fixes are perfectly within your capability to perform without farming it out.
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    I am 99% sure the frame rails are fine. Everything looks pretty clean from the bottom but I am going to have to pull the carpet to check the front floorboards. The door seals leak, so I am concerned there may be moisture getting caught under the carpet and rusting from the inside out. Happened on my 73 Cutlass I am restoring. Floors were cherry looking up from the bottom, but I could see small pinholes. When I pulled up the carpet, somehow water was getting down there where it couldn't dry and rusted from the inside out. Still not sure where that water was coming from, but I will be sealing every crevice before it goes back together. I noticed flakes of rust on the carpet when I picked up the Hornet. Maybe coming from the floor or possibly off the front of the doors in the jamb area. I have cleaned it all and will be watching closer. Can you just ground the wire to the water temp sender to check if the gauge is good. Would be nice if it is just the sender.
  • Why even mess with the temp guage..Get a NEW sender from Bill A.. run a new wire to the idiot light (MAKE SURE ITS GROUNDED) AND YER GOOD TO GO...MIGHT EVEN BE AS SIMPLE AS A BLOWN BULB at the light...that's what was wrong with my 54 Wasp guages....
  • nick s
    nick s Senior Contributor
    yes, grounding the sender wire should peg the gauge. if that doesn't work you have the unfortunate task of pulling the cluster, (maybe a good time to yank the clock) once its out you should be able to check the gauge by connecting power and ground directly - if the gauge checks out its got to be in the wiring.
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    I messed around with it a little last night. Carb was totally out of adjustment, the diaphram in the dist is blown and the centrifugal is sticking. Appears the wiper motor is blown since the cable control works fine and there is plenty of vacuum to the motor. I grounded the temp wire and the gauge took off so the sender is bad. Guy before my put some kind of booster electric fuel pump in addition to the mechanical. Don't know why but the way he did it is a fire hazard waiting to happen. Held by wire to the air cleaner and powered off the coil. I put a vacuum gauge on the pump and the needle bounces all over. This is on the vacuum boost side not the fuel. Is this normal or should I just replace the whole pump and get rid off that screwy electric deal? I am going to need a 54 shop manual, especially with a wiring diagram. Somewhere along the line someone has done some pretty hoaky wiring on this car, especially with the interior lights. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to touch a car.
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    Bill A



    Do you also have replacement vacuum advances?
  • Rob,



    I got mine from Dave Kostansek / Tim Cheney- (440)994-9173 or (440) 293- 4079

    Fast shipping and lots of good stuff. Also, look in the back of your WTN... lots of parts and vendors. Niels
  • The 53-54 shop manual is a supplement to the 1952. You can get lot of reprints available, real nice 52 originals don't seem to be plentiful. I bought reprints to work from to keep the originals as nice as possible.
  • The previous owner probably had trouble with vapor lock thats why he added the electric fuel pump. If you put the vacuum gauge on the fuel pump that is used to boost for the wipers yes the guage will jump. That pulse works well with the wipers.



    Agree with Niels Dave and Tim can get you all the parts you are looking for they may even have the sender.
  • 464Saloon
    464Saloon Senior Contributor
    Thanks, so what do I need to order for a manual? Do I need the 52 and the 54 supplement. I think there is a seperate 54 body manual which I might as well have too. So do I need a new pump? I don't want to leave this the way it is. If I have to run an electric which they didn't have factory, I need to set it up in a more permanent mounting and wiring position.
  • bobbydamit
    bobbydamit Expert Adviser
    464Saloon wrote:
    Thanks, so what do I need to order for a manual? Do I need the 52 and the 54 supplement. I think there is a seperate 54 body manual which I might as well have too. So do I need a new pump? I don't want to leave this the way it is. If I have to run an electric which they didn't have factory, I need to set it up in a more permanent mounting and wiring position.

    Rob, answers to all this in in your "E" mail box. Have fun reading. The fuel Pump, the vacuum advance, and parts sites, the WTN and more. Dig in and then get back to me. Enjoy, Bobby :rolleyes:
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