Making a Convertible out of a sedan and Strengthing the frame

[Deleted User]
[Deleted User]
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Hello experts,



A fellow Hudson owner has e-mailed me a question and I need an answer.



He has a 51 Commodore that he is resurrecting into a convertible. His question to me was "I need to know EXACTLY what and where the additional strengthening was placed. Can you tell me where the factory strengthened the body to make it a convertible?"

[

I don't even know if the frames are different. I would assume there are some differences.



I will forward your input to him. Thanks, Niels

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Niels, The main area where the stepdown body was reinforced was the box frame rail. Most generally people who have worked on stepdown frames are aware that the perimeter frame on standard coupes and sedans were of the boxed rectangle type section. When doing a convertible there was an additional rail welded into the boxed section essentially dividing the box rectangular frame rail in half. This further reinforced the frame for what was a lack of support from what would have been a roof.The other reinforced area was the windshield frame into the cowl. Also there was a bulkhead in the trunk that was behind the convt. top well. This was unique to converts.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Langworths book has description of the strengthening on page 46. If you have the book take a look at that.

    Also DennisNY had pictures posted of his Convertible body on a rotisserie so you can look at that to see the differences in the frame.

    You can also look for the frame crash sheets that the body shops used to repair cars. I see them on ebay all the time. These will have the exact locations of the rails. Nothing is going to substitute for finding a buddy with a convertible and making the measurements and drawings yourself.
  • mrsbojigger
    mrsbojigger Senior Contributor
    Thanks guys,

    This information will help. And thanks for not "coming down on me." I am an anal perfectionist so it WILL look great when I am finished.

    Also, I think there is a convertible in a car museum in Rozanke, Texas which is about 70 miles from here. Thats the closest one I know of.

    Chaz
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I would hope we wouldn't come down on you. My hope is you get enough info to do the work safely. The Hudson factory did this way as well. Langworth has a nice section on this. Without the proper reinforcement (230Ibs of extra bracing) the chassis would no be safe in my opinion. Of course today you can use better material but brace in the same fashion as the factory.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    I think if I'm not mistaken the body manual or parts group catalog has pictures of the framing for step-down converts. Basically coupe bodies were pulled off the line at the factory and hand made into convertibles. If its' a sedan body you're working with though you may have to make a few modifications to that bracing. Hudson didn't offer a 4 dr convertible. You could delete the rear doors though with the right spare sheet metal.
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    It'll be neat to see how he turns a sedan into a convertible. Is this a 4-door sedan, or a brougham?
  • mrsbojigger
    mrsbojigger Senior Contributor
    Hey Jon B,
    Yes, it is a 4-door sedan. I have already pre-fit the new doors and rear panels. They are a perfect fit. I will manufacture the braces myself. I'm just wanting to make it safe, dependable and durable. It MUST have the correct bracing. My other "ride" is also a convertible which I also saved from the crusher. It has already won many 1st places of which one was a national car show, also one "best in show" and came within 1 point of another best in show with a score of 99 out of a 100 points. What I am saying is that when the car (Hudson) is unvailed no one will know that it was not built at the factory. Check out the attachments. I am not a bodyman but an Artist.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Accually this has been done quite a bit over the years, So I am suprised that a bunch of people have not answered your thread, Always got a kick out of the super restoration crowd, when they condoned this.
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    nhp1127 wrote:
    Hello experts,

    A fellow Hudson owner has e-mailed me a question and I need an answer.

    He has a 51 Commodore that he is resurrecting into a convertible. His question to me was "I need to know EXACTLY what and where the additional strengthening was placed. Can you tell me where the factory strengthened the body to make it a convertible?"
    [
    I don't even know if the frames are different. I would assume there are some differences.

    I will forward your input to him. Thanks, Niels
    OK - I don't have my original source (or pictures anymore) - I'm pretty sure it was in the book I sold to Niels but I answered a post about car lifts and Hudson convertibles a while back and here is an section about the converts added stuctural metal that I plagerized from somewhere...

    blah...blah...

    ...Hudson added a special "Z-member" to the lower frame rails from the cowl back to to the rear wheel well. An additional wide member was added to the to connect the rear wheelhousing to door lock pillar and was anchored to the base frame with a heavy iron casting. The rear bulkhead was welded to the wheelhousing and floor and to an additional member extending around the beltline to the doors. There were other structural re-inforcements made and the window frame was also re-inforced.
  • mrsbojigger
    mrsbojigger Senior Contributor
    Dan,

    I'm sorry, I just don't understand. Can you clarify what a "Z" member looks like. Is it really a Z with two acute angles rather than 2-90's? If it is 2-90's wouldn't it be a C-channel?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    mrsbojigger wrote:
    Dan,

    I'm sorry, I just don't understand. Can you clarify what a "Z" member looks like. Is it really a Z with two acute angles rather than 2-90's? If it is 2-90's wouldn't it be a C-channel?

    Chaz..If this Hudson rag top is going to be anything like your Ford rag...It is going to be one bad A$$ car. Your Ford looks so GOOD. Thanks Ron
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    mrsbojigger wrote:
    Dan,
    I'm sorry, I just don't understand. Can you clarify what a "Z" member looks like. Is it really a Z with two acute angles rather than 2-90's? If it is 2-90's wouldn't it be a C-channel?
    To tell you the truth I just don't recall if there was any pics that went along with the description.

    I believe it was sandwiched inside the original "frame" rails - which are just spot welded sheet metal - in the area described... "lower frame rails from the cowl back to to the rear wheel well." - or maybe it is just an extra wrapping on the outside of sheet metal making it tripple walled?

    Maybe Nick or Dave S would be kind enough to take some close up picutres of the area the we could see for sure...Nick's 1948 C8 convertible

    Possible inner Z...

    jay2a.jpg

    Possible outer Z...

    jay2b.jpg
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    :rolleyes: Well fellas... you must have all missed my Website article which shows a convertible similar to the one the Maas fellas are redoing being resurected. The pictures show some but not all of the reinforcements. You can download and enlarge the pictures to see more details. One of the pictures partially shows the under floor reinforcement.

    Remember Stepdown Convertibles have a welded in ribbed sheet metal plate behind the top well. This is not shown in my article nor are the cast mounts that come down from the inside reenforcement members to mate with the floor reinforcement channels. Other than the cast items, all the channels are infact folded .030 to .060 sheet metal welded together for rigidity.

    Rob in Washington has the convertible used in the article. He has many more pictures which may help ambitious members trying to create a convertible. Once Rob has other pictures to share ... I plan to expand the scope of my article. Keep checking my site... I put stuff there and hope it is beneficial.

    http://members.aol.com/rcsacimt/Re

    One last point...with skill and determination, building a convetible from another Hudson body is possible. The factory based thier cars on a reinforced frame... the appropriate parts were attached to the frame and a convetible was born... take apart any of the stepdowns and the differences are clear... add ons to the basic design was the extent of the differences. When the Hollywood came to pass the same reinforcements found in a convertble were used in the Hollywoods... so for the less ambitious... find a really poor hollywood and a cowl.. a hudson convertible can be easily made. Did I hear Carson Top?

    Cheers
  • russmaas
    russmaas Senior Contributor
    Ken has a real nice site on such repair. In my situation I took the kinda easy way out. I had a solid unibody frame from a 4-door. When I took both the convertible and 4 door down to the frame ( by frame in this case means no cowl or rear quarter attachment, cut throught the upper bolt hole on the taillite as a reference). I measure and check for differences. The only differnce in floor/frame itself is the extra support metal in the outside frame rail and sits approximatly from the front door hinges to the rear quarter front post. It is vitually impossible to add piece of metal in the frame as they did at the factory w/o tearing up the original frame out of a good non-convert frame. So the only solution is to add metal to the outer side of the frame rail. In my case I added a 1/8 inch metal that was 4 inches wide and ran from in front of the cowl to the end of the rockers. Of course the rockers covered up this so it make it clean look. When it cut out the rear quarter area of the convertible , with care, I cut the iron that was bolted/welded to the frame. This is very important to keep intact with the quarter becasue the rear quarter area will fall into place of any frame with this iron support on and is the basis of a good alignment.
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