Novice with a stuck Engine (Let's rebuild... PLEASE HELP!)

Unknown · April 2006

Major Problem... I'm the newly found owner of a 51 Hudson Commadore 8 problem is I'm a novice with a stuck engine and know idea where to start for a rebuild... PLEASE Help... I got myself a copy of the shop book for that year and that's about it.

P.S. I've just got in touch with the local chapter in my area. (Southern California)

Unknown · April 2006

please check in to your SO CAL HUDSON DEALER, bILL aLBRIGHT, HERE IN FONTANA, CA AT 16593 ARROW BL,, I MAY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU PH 909 823 9168

[Deleted User] · April 2006

Welcome... depending on your resources there are alot of GOOD mechanics to work on Hudsons here in So Cal and they just don't have to be "Hudson" specialist. Just get the engine out and drive it over to Egge Machine in Orange County /Sante Fe Springs. They can competently rebuild your engine. Also, join HET and check out the vendors in the back of our magazine for all your Hudson parts needs. As you mentioned, our local chapter can be a big help. By the way, there is a big multi-make car show this Sunday at the Gene Autry museum (next to the LA Zoo). The So Cal Hudson chapter will be well represented there as the club is paying the entry fee for all the members who attend. It's not alot of money to enter but it is the thought that counts.... I wish my ex-wife understood that concept! Niels

Unknown · April 2006

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the replies ... (Bill) I'll be calling as soon as I can... nhp1127 thank you for the resources, yet I'd really like to rebuild this one myself I'm willing to read and learn all that I can before turning one bolt. I was able to speak to Jon with the So Cal chapter who also mentioned the event this Sunday... I have plans to meet up with him and the rest of the Husonites at the Autry. I was hoping someone had a chilton type book on the rebuiding of one of these bad boys... if not I'm sure the shop book I bought will work fine, but I'm a person that gathers all I can before starting anything new. So any info. on the subject or instructions likewise a great help.

Unknown · April 2006

To name another Hudson engine parts helper...

Dale Cooper has a complete line of engine parts available for rebuilding any hudson motor, including new pistons, rings, bearings, etc... as well as all of the gaskets. I have been a satisfied customer of his for some time now. Look him up on line.

I would say though, considering the cost, etc.... if you feel it may be ovwer your head, might want to contact someone in the local chapter, that has done a few of these. I think your side of the coast has some real expertise to assist you... Lucky guy....

Geoff · April 2006

I don't want to discourage or deter you, but I would carefully check the condition of the engine before considering rebuilding, and if it can be returned to service satisfactorily then I would urge you to do so, as these are expensive beasties to rebuild. They have babbitted rods and stepped size main bearings (5 of them), which have to be line bored if you have semi-finished or re-metalled shells. Having said that, I consider the 8 cylinder Hudson engine the best all-round engine ever produced by the company. The early F-head super Sixes were much more rugged, and the later Hornet much more powerful, but for smoothness, torque, silent performance, economy and durability, they took a lot of beating. Good luck,

Geoff.

[Deleted User] · April 2006

General question on rebuilds: What is a ballpark figure for an 8 cyl rebuild? I'm not talking exact, but a general guesstimate. I have a rod knocking in my 51 Commodore and would like to keep the original engine. I have a good 49 spare that I will install, but would like to rebuild the original and reinstall down the line.

Joe

mars55 · April 2006

Chilton's and Motor's Auto Repair manuals appear on Ebay all the time. Here are two examples.

A Chilton's Auto Repair Manual 1940 to 1953

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chiltons-Auto-Repair-Manual-1940-1953_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6032QQitemZ8060194380QQrdZ1

A 1955 Motor's Auto Repair Manual (Covers 1940 to 1955).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motors-Auto-Repair-Manual-1955-18th-Edition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6759QQitemZ8060442837QQrdZ1

Unknown · May 2006

nhp1127 wrote:

Welcome... depending on your resources there are alot of GOOD mechanics to work on Hudsons here in So Cal and they just don't have to be "Hudson" specialist. Just get the engine out and drive it over to Egge Machine in Orange County /Sante Fe Springs. They can competently rebuild your engine. Also, join HET and check out the vendors in the back of our magazine for all your Hudson parts needs. As you mentioned, our local chapter can be a big help. By the way, there is a big multi-make car show this Sunday at the Gene Autry museum (next to the LA Zoo). The So Cal Hudson chapter will be well represented there as the club is paying the entry fee for all the members who attend. It's not alot of money to enter but it is the thought that counts.... I wish my ex-wife understood that concept! Niels

Yah same here x wifes and somegirlfriends dont understand. It can always be worse we can be spending our money in the bars.

Uncle Josh · May 2006

If you want to try it yourself, I'd give it a go. If you run into trouble, somebody will help you out.

I've been fortunate I guess. I've unstuck a low mileage 262, and other than cleaning and replacing the rings I had to break to get out, got it back together and running with only buying rings and gaskets, about $200. Runs great.

I did a junk yard 212 splasher that needed a new upper front bearing. I had a used one I put in and again got it running for $150

I just did the truck engine last winter. The babbit was gone from the back half of the upper center main so put in another used one that miked up good, got the valves back in the right place, lapped them in, put a set of $20 rings in it and a $150 gasket kit and am running it every day.

Just redid a 308 for the 52 Hornet this spring. Had the valve seats done, and the valves refaced and vacuum tested for $85 down the road, $185 for gaskets, $125 for original pinned rings, $10 for paint. $100 for rebuilt water pump. Lower end was tight so used as is.What do I have, about $600 in it? And the satisfaction of doing it myself.

I've found that if they're stuck, take the head and pan off, then pull the timing gears/chain to separate the valve train from the pistons. Take off the rod caps, then you can deal with each piston at a time. You will want to pull the mains on a splasher to make sure the babbit is still there. It's a pain, but every time I do, I'm glad I did... and you can check them with plastic gage. I check the rod clearance with an 'Ideal' indicator which shows a .001 clearance as about 3/32 inch on the gage. Hey, these things aren't very sophisticated. Basically 6 or 8 cylinder lawnmower engines. Go for it!

[Deleted User] · May 2006

With todays parts and machine work prices you will spend between $4,000 and $5,000 to do a Stepdown "Big Six" or the babbitted Eight COMPLETE and that's if all the big parts; crank, rods, block and head are rebuildable. That rough breaks down reads as follows: All overhaul parts from Dale cooper or Egge = $1,500 to $1,800. Complete machine work = $1,500 to $1,800 and labor $1,000 to 1,500. With the type of valve lifters and babbitted bearings in the eight it could cost you more so evaluate very very carefully before you leap!

50C8DAN · May 2006

Why not put some Marvel Mystery Oil down each cylinder and let is set for a week or two then try putting breaker bar on the crank pulley nut and gently rock it back and forth. It may not be nearly as bad as you think. I would try that first before getting carried away or scared off by a total rebuild. How many miles are on this car/engine?

Unknown · May 2006

Wow, Thanks guys...

I just didn't know how long to let the mystery oil sit before trying something else. I'm going to get this thing rolling somehow... and I sure do thank you guys for the help. I'll pour a little more oil in and I give it a week... see what happens.

Should I drain the pan first? (start fresh)

When I got this they had taken some of the plugs out to use on another car... that chould let dirt in right ... Can I still preceed the same way?

And does anyone know where I can get a set of lock and keys for this car?... I'm missing the keys... I a lock for the trunk.

50C8DAN · May 2006

You might want to remove the head and make sure there is not something down there there shouldn't be! Kids or bugs or whom or whatever might have decided that the spark plug holes would make a good place to put something! My '50 had a burned piston and valve and I would not have known about it until I pulled the head off.

Uncle Josh · May 2006

Yas, and my #1 on the truck was filled with nut shells, AND the valves were in the wrong place. 3 x 5 valves are the same size except for the stem tolerance, and the valve material

It turned free, but if it had started I would have missed the valves, and wouldn't have fixed the main that was missing the babbit, and might have bent a rod.

Unknown · May 2006

So should i remove the oil (and whatever else is in there) from the pan to start?

Then oil pistons... And should I then for sure remove the head clean and make sure of proper placement and if not unstuck by then remove timing gears and try breaking if free right? If any could just comfirm this I'll get started right away.

[Deleted User] · May 2006

I would pull the oil pan first, if you have a rod against the block, you can forget about breaking it loose without addressing that.

Jon B · May 2006

...and, since you're new to this, know that the oil pan is in two parts; the lower pan (which is normal) and a shallow upper pan with trays (one for each connecting rod) from which dippers (cast on the bottom of the rods) scoop up oil during each pass around the crankshaft. It is normal, when replacing the oil pans, to pour some oil into each tray so that when the engine is first started, the oil will flow from the get-go.

Unknown · May 2006

Thanks, everything you said was foreign to me... I'm glad I have a shop book and this forum!

Okay, I looked at the shop book and it's a lot foreign... some questions

1) It says to put a jack under to place pressure on the center cross member for removal then once loosened to place " 1/2" -20 x 6" bolts" this will hold the crossmember when the jack is removed... Those bolts... can I find those and if so where?

PLEASE, PLEASE HELP!

Unknown · May 2006

bigdumbox wrote:

Thanks, everything you said was foreign to me... I'm glad I have a shop book and this forum!

Okay, I looked at the shop book and it's a lot foreign... some questions

1) It says to put a jack under to place pressure on the center cross member for removal then once loosened to place " 1/2" -20 x 6" bolts" this will hold the crossmember when the jack is removed... Those bolts... can I find those and if so where?

PLEASE, PLEASE HELP!

Think about maybe taking a basic automobile shop class in the evening ?

Thanks Ron

Unknown · May 2006

Okay guys... sorry just didn't think that question out. I got the pan off... feel dumb sorry again.

Unknown · May 2006

The front cross member will need to be lowered for the pan to come off. The 1/2 x 6 bolts can be found at most any hardware or parts store. Do not loosen any of the bolts holding member untill you have the car jacked up and on jack stands. and have the jack under the center of the cross member.

Unknown · May 2006

Mars55 thanks for the link... I WON... it get me on the the right track for sure. and guys thanks for the post thus far. It's going to be a few days till I get back to the car but I'm sure there be more I'll need help with. Thank again.

[Deleted User] · May 2006

I think you would be better off pulling the engine and transmission as a unit and working on it outside the car. This will give you access to everything in far more comfortable circumstances. You will end up there before you are done, so might as well do it early.

Unknown · May 2006

Welcome to the world of Hudsons! Just don't give up, the advice here is in good order and everybody's with you. The 8 was smooth as silk and if you want a great road car, it can't be beat. Instead of pulling the pan first, I would have pulled the head. It's personal preference but you can also tell usually if you have a thrown rod as one piston will be out of place in the bore, in other words up when it should be down, etc.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Unknown · May 2006

Okay Guys... I'm back from a couple of hard work days and this weekend is all about the car and me... So it seems I'm going for the engine pull, I've secured some angle steel to weld myself a good stand for the beast in question. Just thought I'd post to see if there's any years of experience I might tap into for any tricks... trade secrets etc... I've gone over the shop book and pre-lubed all the bolts, nuts, screws and whatever else the book mentioned I might have to come across. I'll be taking it slow and most likely be back for information. Thank in advance Guys!!!

[Deleted User] · May 2006

if you take the locks out there is a number for the key coding on one of them(if keyed alike) or on two of them if it has 2 keys, take them to any competent locksmith and they can make keys for you.

[Deleted User] · May 2006

Pulling engines on these old cars is a snap. Just look around and anthing connected engine to car must be disconneted. Then put a chain on headbolts one near front on one side and near rear on the other and use an engine hoist to lift her out. If you forgot something, it will show up in a hurry. You will need a buddy to work the hoist while you guide things. Pull the radiator and if you have clearance problems, pull the grill. That should not be necessary.

Unknown · May 2006

I've been going slow with the instructions in the shop book... Some how I ended up with a bad hoist so the engine is still in there till next weekend... but ... while I was in there I found when taking the upper grill off that the center emblem lights up... I didn't know that, had no idea, there's the question...

WHAT is the center emblem supposed to look like, colors and all, does anyone had a photo of it lit up?

Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks again guys.

rambos_ride · May 2006

KGAP Sells new reproduction pieces - my 49 was black and silver most others were red and silver or red and gold

Uncle Josh · May 2006

Interesting story about a local cop who got a Hornet and was gonna catch all the wayward kids. Most skullduggery happened at night, and seemed that when he got to the scene everybody was gone. Finally he noticed the lit center triangle that the kids could see coming 2 miles away. He had to pull the plug on it.

Novice with a stuck Engine (Let's rebuild... PLEASE HELP!)

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