54 Hornet Special Brougham for sale
Comments
-
A friend has been following this thread and asked me if I would review the situation and comment which, in hope of clarification, I am pleased to do.
I have read the comments and posts and conclude from the information that this seems to be basically a contract case. Unless local statute provides for a criminal offense for the sale of a vehicle with a defective structure, likely under the motor vehicle statutes or vendor and seller statutes, there is no criminal liability and this is purely a civil matter.
Suit must be brought in the venue where the contract was entered into, or where the defendant resides or can be found, unless the defendant has personally availed himself to the buyer's venue. This is why filing a suit in Tokyo is not necessary when purchasing a Japanese product in the US or suing GM in Detroit if you bought a Chevrolet in Las Vegas. As another example, in a criminal contex, a person living in California and cited for shoplifting in Vermont could not contest the charge in California but would have to appear in the proper Vermont court to contest it.
Each state has their own court system and some states do not have a "small claims court" per se where the litigants argue their case without legal assistance. Even those states with a small claims court have diferent jurisdictional limits as to damages. It is my understanding that some states have jurisdictional limits of over $10,000.00 in their lower courts.
As to the theory of recovery under contract; this would appear to be a misrepresentation and/or fraud situation. Basically the elements of this theory are (1) a representation made by the seller that (2) he knows to be false (3) as an inducement to sell and (4) a reliance on the false statement by the buyer, (5) resulting in damages. The remedies are a recission of the contract, or an award of damages. Unless the contract is in writing and has a provision for attorney's fees to be awarded in an action to enforce the contract, no attorney's fees will be awarded. It has been my experience that most all contracts for the sale of automobiles between indviduals are oral.
The plaintiff (the buyer in this case) has the burden of proof as to proving fraud and this can be rather difficult to prove in these cases. The truck driver would probably be the best witness for carrying the burden as he appears to be a disinterested party, but the driver would have to testify in person with the defendant being given the opportunity for cross examination, as an afffidavit could be considered as written heresay in this situation and therefore be excluded as evidence.
Now, all this being said, there may be a state statute addressing placing an "inheritantly dangerous product" into commerce. Whether there exists such statute and, if such statute does exist, if it is applicable to an individual private seller is for an attorney to research. If the statute does exist it may provide punitive damages which may be substantial, for example treble damages, attorney's fees and all expenses of bringing the lawsuit.
Lastly, it is not my intent to give any specific legal advise in my general comments as each venue has different statutes, codes and laws, but after this situation was brought to my attention I felt as though that my comments may be helpful and I am hopeful that they will be taken in that context. Thank you.0 -
Ken,
As you stated in your post
" The car in question was represented by others to this forum and in that representation I do not believe there were any inducements to purchase"
This car was represented by the seller on April 23 on this website under
the following thread.
http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5613
I submit to you that membership to the HET Club has a great deal to do with
this situation and members conducting themselves in such a manner should be removed.
Brad0 -
if you haven't done so already get a hold of the HET President at HETcwebb@kiowaonline.net remove the HET and report this situation to him and see what he says.0
-
I say kick him out of the club, unless he wants to make it right.
It's easy to say Caveat Emptor in this situation, unless you're the affected party.....
I kind of wonder when this thread will get closed?0 -
bill a wrote:the moral of the story is buy CALIFORNIA RUST FREE HUDSONS, BILL ALBRIGHT0
-
No doubt that it is always good to see one in person. Then again it's also good to deal with decent people who don't lie about what they are selling.
Perhaps getting the word out on this jerk will help someone else down the road. Michigan HET members beware as you have a dishonorable member in your chapter.
Somewhere north of Detroit and northeast of Saginaw there is a snake in the woodpile.
Brad0 -
Just be careful Brad, I did a post recently called Buyer Beware on a guy that screwed me around on a Twin-H out of the WTN. I wrote the President and the editor along with a post here. The President did respond but of course had never had a complaint about him and my post here got pulled by the administrator, though it did get quite a few views before it was pulled. These dishonest and crooked sellers do need to be exposed so that the other good members don't get hurt. I would pursue a legal course as mentioned earlier, a whole car is far more than a Twin H. Good Luck0
-
Thanks for the advice. I am working on several avenues to achieve a REASONABLE
remedy with zero help from the seller. I have notified the club president and will be preparing what is necessary to have this individual removed from the HET Club.
I have been recieving guidance from several sources on things that I can and cannot say on this forum. It is truely a shame that things have come to this but this is one screwing that I have no intention on just laying back and taking.
Brad0 -
464Saloon wrote:Just be careful Brad, I did a post recently called Buyer Beware on a guy that screwed me around on a Twin-H out of the WTN. I wrote the President and the editor along with a post here. The President did respond but of course had never had a complaint about him and my post here got pulled by the administrator, though it did get quite a few views before it was pulled. These dishonest and crooked sellers do need to be exposed so that the other good members don't get hurt. I would pursue a legal course as mentioned earlier, a whole car is far more than a Twin H. Good Luck
I got a bit of a chucke today in the latest edition of the WTN, The guy you had trouble with was still advertising his wares with the proviso that the"buyer responsible for all freight/ handling expenses" OK well what are they? Looks like some folks can't fess up. By why not? Why not try something novel like honesty or at least a reasonable estimate of expenses? Why not tell people my car is rough it needs TLC but here's my price for a rare stepdown. Your call now.0 -
Sounds sort of like the person who contacted me (a newbie) that wanted to sell a part for more than he has it advertised for in the WTN. Nice intro to the group!0
-
If I wouldn't have just bought a 51 sedan, I would be interested in taking it off of your hands. It looked as if it had potential, framework aside. I won't take sides on this, as there are two sides to every story. Just for a moment, let's look at this from another angle. I know it wasn't what you expected. With today's technology, anything can be fixed. It looked like it was fairly rust free on the outside. I have been pricing a lot of things lately and it seems as if there would be a lot of money in parts alone on this car (if everything else is true). A new wiring harness is $750 all by itself. Did I see that it had a reupholstered interior? That is an easy $1000. A 54 windshield? Good quarter panels? A spicer rearend? Good stainless? I haven't seen the car, but if it sounds like it is between a #4 & #5 car. If it is- then its value would be around $3287 according to collectorcarmarket.com. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything 54 years old without seeing it first (unless I could just about steal it). The reason for this is that everyone's opinion varies when it comes to vehicle condition- ESPECIALLY when it is the owner you are talking to. A couple of years ago, I bid on an old AMC on Ebay. I did win the car and gave a deposit. He said that it was drivable.When I went to retieve the car, It was a mess! I guess that if I had taken a stool and put it where the driver's seat was supposed to be, I might have made it a mile or two before it either broke down or blew up! Needless to say, I left it there. The good part of the trip was that I managed to slip over to N. Creasy's meet for a couple of hours! All was not lost! Moral of the story- "When life hands you lemons-make lemonade". I am sure that is not what you want to hear right now..........0
-
7XPacemaker
Well the car certainly is for sale. The body is not in as good of condition as the pictures seem to indicate to you. The book value you quoted would be excessive for the overall condition of THIS car. My guess is that I will have to part the car out
to get most of my money back.
Thanks for your post
Brad0 -
Brad, Sounds like a good case for JUDGE JUDY! Make it a high visibility case. Document everything, and give the show a call.
Bob0 -
Well I hate like hell to see it get parted, as I understand, though I have not been able to find numbers, the 54 Hornet Special 2 dr sedan ( brougham, fastback etc) like I have is a pretty rare bird. There should be someone out there like maybe Bill A that can save it. As I understand it, there were 50,000 total Hudsons built in 54 where about 24,000 were Hornets. This is as far as I have seen the numbers narrowed down to. So by reasoning we all know there were far more 4 drs built than 2drs. Then you narrow it down to just the 2 dr sedan and a Special and you have to be talking pretty low number built. Mine is a stick on top of that so that is even rarer, I don't know if Brad's is a stick or not, but it is still a pretty rare Hudson.0
-
The Moral Of This Story Is Buy California Rust Free Cars, Bill Albright0
-
I think everyone tired of this thread should respond the same way Bill has.
The Moral Of This Story Is Buy California Rust Free Cars, Matt Royer0 -
Matt,
This is not required reading. If it offends you or you are bored then may I suggest that you simply move on. This may not be important to you but it is to me.
Brad0 -
This thread is important ! Hopefully, by all this feed back someone will think twice about cheating a fellow Hudson owner !0
-
Hudzilla wrote:I got a bit of a chucke today in the latest edition of the WTN, The guy you had trouble with was still advertising his wares with the proviso that the"buyer responsible for all freight/ handling expenses" OK well what are they? Looks like some folks can't fess up. By why not? Why not try something novel like honesty or at least a reasonable estimate of expenses? Why not tell people my car is rough it needs TLC but here's my price for a rare stepdown. Your call now.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- 37K All Categories
- 106 Hudson 1916 - 1929
- 19 Upcoming Events
- 91 Essex Super 6
- 28.6K HUDSON
- 561 "How To" - Skills, mechanical and other wise
- 993 Street Rods
- 150 American Motors
- 174 The Flathead Forum
- 49 Manuals, etc,.
- 78 Hudson 8
- 44 FORUM - Instructions and Tips on using the forum
- 2.8K CLASSIFIEDS
- 600 Vehicles
- 2.1K Parts & Pieces
- 77 Literature & Memorabilia
- Hudson 1916 - 1929 Yahoo Groups Archived Photos