Hollywoods from coupes??
There was mention on another thread recently that Hollywoods started life as coupes.
While it is common Hudson knowledge that convertibles were created from coupes, I had no idea that Hollywoods were reworked coupes, handmade off line.
Fascinating, tell me more!
While it is common Hudson knowledge that convertibles were created from coupes, I had no idea that Hollywoods were reworked coupes, handmade off line.
Fascinating, tell me more!
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i made the reference bob, I'll dig around tonight, unless someone else knows where it's covered. but unfortunately like all else hudson, the factory didn't leave us much documentation. I don't believe there are specifics as to where they made the cuts ie is it actually the coupe roof panel still in place? its tough to see but the lines are close between the cars, all that glass is deceiving.
bob0 -
Even in the early 50s that would be a terribly inefficient way to manufacture a hardtop. I have a hard time believing they put a coupe together than modified it into a Hollywood. Maybe they shared many panels, but even Hudson couldn't afford to do this.0
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Hi, guys. My dad has a hollywood and they were made from coupes. What he has found is that the factory cut the tops of the doors off and put reenforcments in the doors and added a plate to hold the wing window in place. He has looked for Hollywood doors for a while,but no luck in finding any he is going to cut down coupe doors to fit. There weren't many Hollywoods and Convertibles made right, so if a customer wanted one the factory "custom" made one(they probably had a template to go by) with the appropriate price mark ups. Just my opinion..Hudsonly ,Lisa G0
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wow, sounds like a waste of a coupe to make a hollywood.... :eek:0
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hudsonkid wrote:wow, sounds like a waste of a coupe to make a hollywood.... :eek:
That was brutal but funny!0 -
hudsonkid wrote:wow, sounds like a waste of a coupe to make a hollywood.... :eek:
Noone would ever think of doing that today, maybe a hollywood to make a convertible.
My understanding was that convertibles (not sure about hollywoods) had a Z channel welded into the unibody frame rails for additional strength. This would seem to me that convertibles were built from the ground up ( and started life with the intent of being a convertible ) and not a coupe. I would love to see documentation that coupes were built, then cut up to become Hollywoods.0 -
I have no suspicion of a hollywood being made from a coupe, but it does seem a bit wasteful, but what other option did they have? Maybe they did in fact do this. To stay with the times, they needed to do something. I do find it hard to believe they hacked a coupe door, but maybe they did hack up a coupe otherwise.
As far as the frame strength, they probably didn't need the extra strength as the convertibles, since the roof of the hardtop had to offer supplemental strength over the convertible.
So what did they need to have to do a conversion?
A roof stamping, rear glass, side glass (from the already in "production" convertible) doors (borrowed from the convertible), roofline trim, interior trim,... probably not a lot of extra work to do this.0 -
The hollywood has the same frame as the convertibles.0
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For the sake of information exchange, let me pass on the following:
I have restored both a convertible and a Hollywood. There is a misunderstanding as to what the factory did when they built these cars.
If you have a crash parts guide you will know that Hudson built a header panel that was welded to the top of the cowl to create the base for convertibles and Hollywoods. This header is spot welded to the cowl the same as the header on a coupe, brougham or four door sedan. The top for a Hollywood is a unique part which is welded to the body too. The door skins for a coupe and 2 door sedans are identical to those for a convertible or Hollywood for the same years and there is interchangeability among some years.
The convertible not having a solid top had to have added reinforcement and this is accomplished through the addition of a solid panel behind the rear seat area, side channels that include crude cast iron base plates where the top ram is mounted as well as a cross body reinforcing channel. I do not know why the Hollywood has the same side channel and cast iron base plates. The rear panel is not needed, but a cross rib sheet metal frame outlines the trunk opening at the rear seat.
Bill Albright has perfected the presto change - O techniques for changing a coupe door into a convertible door. As I remember the process is pretty simple. The hard part is having the right window hardware. Bill can also show the so inclined how to turn a Hollywood into a convertible for those whose rust is beyond repair.
While I have seen Hudson assembly line information and drawings, I am not an expert. But, what I have been exposed to leaves me with a broad appreciation for what they thought through to make the assembly lines and assembly personnel work efficiently at a variety of body styles.
Cheers0 -
Hollywood, Convertible and Coupe lines were all purpose built and not converted from other Hudson models. It is true that Hardtops and convertibles share many production components, dimensions and sheet metal, but one was never built from the other. As for the Coupe being the donor car for Convertible production, is even further from the truth. The Coupe model does not share the chassis design of the convertible or Hardtop nor does it have the interior dimensions of the other two. You can build a Stepdown Convertible from a Hardtop chassis if you have a rusted out convertible donor but not from a Coupe chassis. Been there done that!0
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i found reference in Langworth's "Hudson: the Postwar Years". over the years i think i have seen others, but not tonight. page 61 if you want to read along (by the way pages 44-46 have his account of the convertibles)
"Nineteen fifty-one's new body style, offered in four flavors via for different model lines, was the Hollywood hardtop-built like the convertibles, rather individually, and beefed up to absorb the stresses of a pillarless window line. The Hollywood must be reckoned as a response, rather than an innovation."
also
"On the Hollywood, Sales Vice President N.K. VanDerZee's pitch reached crescendo proportions: "the Hollywood provides the ultimate beauty in automotive design. We believe that no other car can match its graceful lowness of design that combines the dash and verve of a convertible with the luxury and convenience of a custom-crafted Club Coupe""
read what you want into these statements. they do leave some things open to interpretation. the statements do convey the same sentiments of many of the posts in this thread though. (the one exception being that misguided hudsonkid and his assult on the Hollywoods;)
) 0 -
I was always under the impression that the convert. and the hollywood were based on the Brougham (2door sedan). Isn't that why the convertible was referred to as the "convertible brougham"?0
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nick s wrote:i found reference in Langworth's "Hudson: the Postwar Years". over the years i think i have seen others, but not tonight. page 61 if you want to read along (by the way pages 44-46 have his account of the convertibles)
"Nineteen fifty-one's new body style, offered in four flavors via for different model lines, was the Hollywood hardtop-built like the convertibles, rather individually, and beefed up to absorb the stresses of a pillarless window line. The Hollywood must be reckoned as a response, rather than an innovation."
also
"On the Hollywood, Sales Vice President N.K. VanDerZee's pitch reached crescendo proportions: "the Hollywood provides the ultimate beauty in automotive design. We believe that no other car can match its graceful lowness of design that combines the dash and verve of a convertible with the luxury and convenience of a custom-crafted Club Coupe""
read what you want into these statements. they do leave some things open to interpretation. the statements do convey the same sentiments of many of the posts in this thread though. (the one exception being that misguided hudsonkid and his assult on the Hollywoods;) )
c'mon Nick, doncha think they look a bit "unfinished" or kind of an afterthought....
I just can't love the hollywood...
especially if you look at the lines of the early Oldsmobiles, 49-56, just for one set of examples. GM got it right, i just think the lines of the coupe were superior, so much in fact, that it would have been difficult to make a hardtop that was better in appearance....
I am starting to like the hollywoods better than the broughams, but they got a long way to go. If I had to have one, probably a 54. They seem to be the closest in my book.0 -
royer wrote:I was always under the impression that the convert. and the hollywood were based on the Brougham (2door sedan). Isn't that why the convertible was referred to as the "convertible brougham"?
no the broughams have the short decklid and large passenger area of a sedan. coupes convertibles and hollywoods shared the large decklid and zero rear seat legroom. i think the brougham refference on the convt's was just an attempt to add prestigue to the car.0 -
hudsonkid wrote:c'mon Nick, doncha think they look a bit "unfinished" or kind of an afterthought....
I just can't love the hollywood... you just don't understand love
especially if you look at the lines of the early Oldsmobiles, 49-56, just for one set of examples. GM got it right, i just think the lines of the coupe were superior, so much in fact, that it would have been difficult to make a hardtop that was better in appearance....
I am starting to like the hollywoods better than the broughams, but they got a long way to go. If I had to have one, probably a 54. They seem to be the closest in my book.
I won't deny that gm built some great looking hardtops in the early 50's but compared to some of their sedans how wrong could they go. a definite sign of their size and ability to take a proactive approach to the market. their designs helped force the other companies to follow suit. Like hudson, my company has been forced to adapt an existing product to a trends just to match another's where a thorough redesign was done to accomodate a feature. Though no good comes from those products our markets dictate that we provide a parallel offering.
and i have to agree that the 54 Hollywoods are the best
(look at 54 ads hudson marketing appearantly liked the 54 hollywood too) i think the high straight quarters accent the rooflines, where the 51-53 kinda did look choppy because the lines above the belt are hard straight cuts while below is a gentle curve to the rear bumper (actually some color schemes make the club coupes look choppy as well).in the same sense the earlier broughams blended perfectly to the rear quarters. the 48-53 lines seamed to be drawn to the sedan roof, for 54 perhaps to the hollywood instead or at least with it in consideration.
compare the hollywood side by side with a coupe though, they are close. the roofline difference is an illusion created from the wraparound rear glass and the larger side windows.0 -
GM set the standard for hardtop design in the early to mid fifties. Noone came close and everbody played catchup. Ford didn't do much better than Hudson trying to outfit the shoebox in '51 with a hardtop. They didn't even try to do the Mercury or Lincoln. Ford's line in '52 were a great improvement. Chryslers cars in the early fifties (until '55) were so dull the hardtop still didn't help much. Studebaker had that great coupe in '53, but the earlier year was kinda ugly. I do agree with Nick and Hudsonkid, the high rear fender line of the '54 finally gave some balance to the Hollywood and made it more pleasing to look at. My opinion, but this is supported by sales during these years.0
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so what do you do if you got a hollywood....
make a convertible?
sounds like a good poll question.... :eek:
we never seem to have enough polls......0 -
So how difficult is it to make a hardtop out of a coupe?0
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Fred Connors wrote:. You can build a Stepdown Convertible from a Hardtop chassis if you have a rusted out convertible donor but not from a Coupe chassis. Been there done that!
I disagree with a coupe chassis, I have done it with a 4 door. Cut the pillars off any unibody and the frame and floor pan is the same. Except for the reinforced outer frame which is easily to build up0 -
Personally I think the '53/'54 Studebaker Starliner Hardtop is tough to beat even for any of GM's nice looking 50s hardtops (after all it was Buick that introduced the first of the hard tops). The '53/'54 Studebaker Starlight Coupe was also a great design but the hardtop edges it out. BTW the '53/'54 Studebaker hard tops were just listed in Automobile magazine (Sept '06) as one of the top 25 automotive designs of all time! This from a magazine that typically does not like American cars. Well maybe American cars from companies still in business, that must be it.0
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So then I ask, would a hollywood door fit on my '50 Pace? I know you would have to modify the quarter window like a hardtop, but can this be done by putting a hardtop window regulator in the Pace panel?
I feel this is getting way out of my budget, but a very interesting question I think.0 -
jsrail wrote:So then I ask, would a hollywood door fit on my '50 Pace? I know you would have to modify the quarter window like a hardtop, but can this be done by putting a hardtop window regulator in the Pace panel?
I feel this is getting way out of my budget, but a very interesting question I think.
the hypothetical doors would bolt right up.
those doors are in pretty high demand, by those restoring convertibles and hollywoods as well. realize that the supply is short, and any conv't (and most hollywoods) with good doors are being saved add in all the conv't with bad doors and i'm sure the total goes negative. finding the vent window and door window is a reasonable task though. the earlier posts indicate the procedure to modify your doors given you have the parts is out there. cut it off and make the necessary changes to mount the new vent assembly. the quarters should be doable as well. the roof mods without donor sheetmetal would be the worst part of the job. kinda intrigued by the thought of a hardtop with your tiny pacemaker rear window it would truely be like a top up convertible (hide your metal work in canvas and it will take a second or third look for sure to realize that its not a soft top). the hollywood is a completely different look and feel.0 -
nick s wrote:the hypothetical doors would bolt right up.
those doors are in pretty high demand, by those restoring convertibles and hollywoods as well. realize that the supply is short, and any conv't (and most hollywoods) with good doors are being saved add in all the conv't with bad doors and i'm sure the total goes negative. finding the vent window and door window is a reasonable task though. the earlier posts indicate the procedure to modify your doors given you have the parts is out there. cut it off and make the necessary changes to mount the new vent assembly. the quarters should be doable as well. the roof mods without donor sheetmetal would be the worst part of the job. kinda intrigued by the thought of a hardtop with your tiny pacemaker rear window it would truely be like a top up convertible (hide your metal work in canvas and it will take a second or third look for sure to realize that its not a soft top). the hollywood is a completely different look and feel.
Lotta work, but its a fun thought exercise!0
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