Battery Cut-off Switch?
Years ago I mounted one of those battery cut-off switches (with the green knob) to the negative battery terminal of my '37 Terraplane (cable to starter). It seemed to work pretty well, providing a quick way to disconnect my battery in the intervals between using my car. But maybe 4-5 years ago the starter seemed to lose power and not turn the starter over too well, and a knowledgeable Hudson fellow told me that those cut-off switches weren't worth doodly-squat: they didn't carry enough current for 6-volt batteries. Sure enough, when I removed the switch my problems stopped.
Ever since then I've disconnected the ground strap from the positive terminal when storing the car, and re-attached it each time I checked the car out of its storage unit.
However, in recent months I discovered that -- even when I tightened the clamp securely, the connection didn't seem good, and the starter wouldn't even turn over (requiring a cleaning of ground strap and battery terminal to work). Sometimes even that wouldn't work and a second cleaning was required. The clamp and terminal started to get pretty scratched up with all the usage! I began to have more trouble starting the car, especially when hot, and maybe a month ago the car stalled in traffic and simply wouldn't start (starter turned over enough to disengage the starter drive, but it never 'caught').
This could have been the result of any number of problems of course, but I chose to replace the 4-year-old battery to begin with. And I installed a new ground strap. Result: car started up immediately, and even restarted at the touch of a button, when hot.
I'm suspecting the constant wear and tear of connecting / disconnecting the cable may have been the cause of poor contact between cable and terminal. (with roughened surfaces on both, the resulting contact area was minimal). I'd hate for this to happen again! Is there a switch that will allow me to disconnect my battery without removing the cable / ground strap? One a bit stronger than the 'green knob' switch? Someone suggested a welding connector of some sort. What do other Hudsonites do?
Ever since then I've disconnected the ground strap from the positive terminal when storing the car, and re-attached it each time I checked the car out of its storage unit.
However, in recent months I discovered that -- even when I tightened the clamp securely, the connection didn't seem good, and the starter wouldn't even turn over (requiring a cleaning of ground strap and battery terminal to work). Sometimes even that wouldn't work and a second cleaning was required. The clamp and terminal started to get pretty scratched up with all the usage! I began to have more trouble starting the car, especially when hot, and maybe a month ago the car stalled in traffic and simply wouldn't start (starter turned over enough to disengage the starter drive, but it never 'caught').
This could have been the result of any number of problems of course, but I chose to replace the 4-year-old battery to begin with. And I installed a new ground strap. Result: car started up immediately, and even restarted at the touch of a button, when hot.
I'm suspecting the constant wear and tear of connecting / disconnecting the cable may have been the cause of poor contact between cable and terminal. (with roughened surfaces on both, the resulting contact area was minimal). I'd hate for this to happen again! Is there a switch that will allow me to disconnect my battery without removing the cable / ground strap? One a bit stronger than the 'green knob' switch? Someone suggested a welding connector of some sort. What do other Hudsonites do?
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Comments
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JC Whitney sells a "knife" type switch.The switch is rated for 500amps and does not wear down the contact surface like the green wheels do. Don't forget to use a heavy gauge battery cable on your 6volt car(double ought if you can)The switch is about $27 and are a absolute must on 6volt GM cars.They can draw over 300 amps,way over the green wheel rating.0
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The opinion regarding the type of cut-off switch you mentioned is correct. They're poop. Constantly connecting/disconnecting of cables can damage connections with the battery. Why not just leave everything connected and hook-up a 6 volt battery maintainer? Better to do this than let the battery sit idle for extended periods.0
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I'd love to set up some electric maintainer, but this car is stored in a metal rental storage unit five miles from my apartment. The power is intermittent (set timer, power goes off in max. 1/2 hour). My battery charger warns against doing this so I assume that a 'maintainer' will suffer under the same circumstances. Also, even though I've replaced most of the wiring in my car, there is still some 70-year-old wiring there and I dasn't leave the thing hooked to the battery!0
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Jon B wrote:Years ago I mounted one of those battery cut-off switches (with the green knob) to the negative battery terminal of my '37 Terraplane (cable to starter). It seemed to work pretty well, providing a quick way to disconnect my battery in the intervals between using my car. But maybe 4-5 years ago the starter seemed to lose power and not turn the starter over too well, and a knowledgeable Hudson fellow told me that those cut-off switches weren't worth doodly-squat: they didn't carry enough current for 6-volt batteries. Sure enough, when I removed the switch my problems stopped.
Ever since then I've disconnected the ground strap from the positive terminal when storing the car, and re-attached it each time I checked the car out of its storage unit.
However, in recent months I discovered that -- even when I tightened the clamp securely, the connection didn't seem good, and the starter wouldn't even turn over (requiring a cleaning of ground strap and battery terminal to work). Sometimes even that wouldn't work and a second cleaning was required. The clamp and terminal started to get pretty scratched up with all the usage! I began to have more trouble starting the car, especially when hot, and maybe a month ago the car stalled in traffic and simply wouldn't start (starter turned over enough to disengage the starter drive, but it never 'caught').
This could have been the result of any number of problems of course, but I chose to replace the 4-year-old battery to begin with. And I installed a new ground strap. Result: car started up immediately, and even restarted at the touch of a button, when hot.
I'm suspecting the constant wear and tear of connecting / disconnecting the cable may have been the cause of poor contact between cable and terminal. (with roughened surfaces on both, the resulting contact area was minimal). I'd hate for this to happen again! Is there a switch that will allow me to disconnect my battery without removing the cable / ground strap? One a bit stronger than the 'green knob' switch? Someone suggested a welding connector of some sort. What do other Hudsonites do?
www.wiringproducts.com I got all my stuff from this place. I had old stock cable from battery to starter and it started ok but evertime I parked it I had to lift the seat to disconnect and connect the battery. Worried about all the old wire catching on fire some time. So I found this place and got 3/0 cable, 2-5ft lengths, connectors, solder plugs and cut off switch witch I mounted to the floor right in front of the front seat of my 29 Hudson. I now just hop in and the switch is right there and she starts like a good 6 volt system should and no more lifting that damn seat. Its like night and day. Good Luck, Ron0 -
Jon B wrote:I'd love to set up some electric maintainer, but this car is stored in a metal rental storage unit five miles from my apartment. The power is intermittent (set timer, power goes off in max. 1/2 hour). My battery charger warns against doing this so I assume that a 'maintainer' will suffer under the same circumstances. Also, even though I've replaced most of the wiring in my car, there is still some 70-year-old wiring there and I dasn't leave the thing hooked to the battery!
Unlike a trickle charger, a battery maintainer/tender consumes and supplies a minimal amount of power and is designed to remain connected. This will be of little use if your storage facility lacks a constant source of power. Maybe a solar powered battery tender would work, providing it doesn't get stolen:eek:. If you're worried about the safety of old wiring, it sounds like you need to replace it rather than accomodate it. Borderline wiring fires can happen at any time. Smokey says, "Only you can prevent Hudson fires." :rolleyes:0 -
The other way to organise a battery cut-off is to fit marine battery connections, so called because they are commonly used on weekend aquatic toys. The terminal remains clamped to the battery post and the leads are quickly connected and disconnected to a bolt on the terminal using wing nuts.
Check out http://www.quickcable.com/17.html0 -
Jon;
I've used a turn switch that you can get from any auto parts store for years with success. Be sure to ask for one to handle 6 volt. If you have trouble getting one for 6 volt, model A supply houses will have them.
Gene.0 -
Thanks, guys, for all your suggestions. Bob, that page you posted is so small I can barely read it; how do the marine connectors work? Can I leave the clamp attached to the battery? And if so, will the 'disconnect' portion not wear out with use (which is my problem now!)?0
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That one in the picture with the green knob is what Jon is talking about when he says he used one with a green knob that eventually failed.0
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I have one like the one in the picture, and while it may fail tomorrow, it has served me for tha last 3 years without fail. In my opinion, any disconnect that is used can develop corrosion. It is no different than any other connection, and must be maintained. I do check my connectors regularly. Including the ground straps. Too many people will spend a lot of time on the Hot wire connections and neglect the grounds. Just cleaning and tightening the grounds can help slow cranking, dim lights and some xharging problems.
As I said before, the disconnect is just a switch and must be maintained as such.
Bob0 -
I think thats the one he was originally talking about, that others have said doesn't have a high enough amperage rating for 6 volt systems. I use them on my tractors and bulldozer, which get little use in the winter, with good results- but they're all 12 volt. With apologies to the purists, the more I see of 6, the better I like 12. It sure spins that 6 volt starter smartly.0
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BJ__TN wrote:I have one like the one in the picture, and while it may fail tomorrow, it has served me for tha last 3 years without fail. In my opinion, any disconnect that is used can develop corrosion. It is no different than any other connection, and must be maintained. I do check my connectors regularly. Including the ground straps. Too many people will spend a lot of time on the Hot wire connections and neglect the grounds. Just cleaning and tightening the grounds can help slow cranking, dim lights and some xharging problems.
As I said before, the disconnect is just a switch and must be maintained as such.
Bob
Gotta agree with Bob here. I've got the "infamous" green knob on the negative (non-grounding) terminal of my '54 Kaiser and has served me well for 5 years. All my electrical problems have been traced to one of three other sources: 1) poor ground; 2) component failure, such as the dimmer switch or overdrive kickdown switch; or 3) human ineptitude--specifically the dingdongs that took 4 tries to get my 6-volt generator rebuilt because they put 12-volt fields in it (wrote a thread on this about 3-4 months ago). I have never had a problem due specifically to the green knob. I wouldn't think Hudson electricals should be that much different--do they have Delco-Remy electricals like the Gen II Kaisers?0 -
How about something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BATTERY-MASTER-DISCONNECT-CUT-OFF-ISOLATOR-KILL-SWITCH_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33574QQihZ002QQitemZ120032484186QQrdZ1
Not a switch, but a disconnect. Have something similiar on my 'Blue Goose', but it appears to be integrated directly with the negative cable going to the starter...
That's the one I use. I use it primarily as an anti-theft device. I just keep a battery butler (trickle charger) on it when it is sitting.0 -
I put a "green knob" disconnect like this on my '40, only to discover that I can't flip the hood up inside my garage to disconnect it. Eventually, the bruise from hitting my forehead with the heel of my hand subsided. However, since I installed a 6-volt Optima battery, I have no starting problems, even after several weeks of sitting.
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A knife switch was mentioned by someone, as a possibility. But is this any better than the 'green knob' switch, as regards use on a six volt vehicle?0
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SamJ wrote:I put a "green knob" disconnect like this on my '40, only to discover that I can't flip the hood up inside my garage to disconnect it. Eventually, the bruise from hitting my forehead with the heel of my hand subsided. However, since I installed a 6-volt Optima battery, I have no starting problems, even after several weeks of sitting.
Good Lord, man; how low is your garage?!? 0 -
Martin200 wrote: Good Lord, man; how low is your garage?!?
If I back in, it's under the roll-up door. If I put the door down, the nose is to close to it to flip the hood. If I drive in, the nose is too close to wall to flip it up. I can do it, its just a pain. :eek:0 -
I think I know the type. When my folks bought the house where I grew up in the late 1960's, it came with one of those old Model-T garages with the big sliding wooden doors. I think one side even had a mechanic's pit in it, which he filled in with gravel. Dad had a couple of other '54 Kaisers back then (which we still have in addition to our good one) and had to tear out the bottom half of the back wall and build an extension on it in order to fit the cars in. Barely enough room to get a postage stamp in there afterward. Thirty years later, it went to the hot place where all bad little garages go-- my dad and one of my brothers razed it with no more than a 14" chainsaw and a 16-lb. maul in one day-- and a nice 30' x 40' garage with 9' overhead doors took its place. I hope your situation will allow you to do a similar upgrade someday.0
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I guess that's the first disadvantage I've heard of for what I think is one of Hudson's 'coolest' features.....the flip forward hood of the 40's cars.0
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[QUOTE=Mike (WA);32792 With apologies to the purists, the more I see of 6, the better I like 12. It sure spins that 6 volt starter smartly.[/QUOTE]
At the risk of taking this thread in a different direction, a 6 volt system is just as effective as a 12 volt system, only it has to use twice the amperage. Watts = Amps X Volts. A starter motor that needs 2400 watts to operate properly would draw 200 amps at 12 volts or 400 amps at 6 volts. As long as it can get those 400 amps from the 6 volt battery it is more than fine. The way to accomplish this is serious battery cables (I use 00-awg 1320-strand welding cable) and a good battery (Read: Optima.) Also run a ground from an engine bolt near the starter directly back to the battery. If you're using a crusty old starter switch you may consider upgrading to a solenoid, and using the crusty old switch merely to ground the solenoid.0 -
jamcoats wrote:At the risk of taking this thread in a different direction, a 6 volt system is just as effective as a 12 volt system, only it has to use twice the amperage. Watts = Amps X Volts. A starter motor that needs 2400 watts to operate properly would draw 200 amps at 12 volts or 400 amps at 6 volts. As long as it can get those 400 amps from the 6 volt battery it is more than fine. The way to accomplish this is serious battery cables (I use 00-awg 1320-strand welding cable) and a good battery (Read: Optima.) Also run a ground from an engine bolt near the starter directly back to the battery. If you're using a crusty old starter switch you may consider upgrading to a solenoid, and using the crusty old switch merely to ground the solenoid.
Was looking at the Optima battery and it looks like you could put 2 of these in the battery holder of my 29 Hudson and parallel them. Would that give you 2wis the kick and would the stock generator charge them ? Ron just thinking
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I think it would work...The generator should be able to charge them. I'm pretty sure someone else has done it with another Hudson, but it was on a 52 I think. I can't remember anymore about it...0
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Ron P wrote:Was looking at the Optima battery and it looks like you could put 2 of these in the battery holder of my 29 Hudson and parallel them. Would that give you 2wis the kick and would the stock generator charge them ? Ron just thinking
I am not sure this would work. I think the two batteries would dischange each other. You would need a method of isolating the two batteries.0 -
Ron, Two in parallel would probably be overkill. I also have a '29 and I am using one Optima. It's 800 and some cranking amps and the starter won't pull anywhere near that. You are right about the size of the battery box; I used a couple of pieces of 2x4 to build an insert to go inside the battery box, then slip the Optima down into it. I recommend using a ground post connector with two output ends on it-- run one to the frame right there by the battery, and another wire up to one of the three starter tray bolts.
I sell battery cables for the '29 made out of 1320 strand 00-awg welding cable with the ends already on if you are interested.0 -
To mount the Optima battery, Quail Services provides a case that looks like a conventional lead acid battery. See their web site.
http://www.quailservices.com/0 -
Now that I have my Kevlar suit on...... how about just driving it everyday? Forget the disconnect.
Terry0 -
Thanks for all your interesting ideas!0
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mars55 wrote:To mount the Optima battery, Quail Services provides a case that looks like a conventional lead acid battery. See their web site.
http://www.quailservices.com/
Has anyone on this board used the Quail case for their Optima? Does it look good installed?0 -
royer wrote:Has anyone on this board used the Quail case for their Optima? Does it look good installed?
I have installed a Quail case in my '49 Commodore. It looks great! My brother didn't even notice it wasn't real when I showed him the car. I had to point it out to him.0 -
Thanks, I think I'll order one on Monday. I love my Optima, but the shape of it makes it a bit tricky to fit in the battery tray correctly. I think the fake case will work better with the stock battery tie down.0
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