Clutch Replacement
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Is there an after-market clutch replacement using modern materials for a 1950 Pacemaker Deluxe?
I am interested in a non-oil, non-cork, modern clutch system to reside inside the original housing.
Thanks...................Ed:)
I am interested in a non-oil, non-cork, modern clutch system to reside inside the original housing.
Thanks...................Ed:)
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Comments
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Nope. Once you get used to the cork clutch you will find it easier to use. I just got mine on the road and the clutch (when properly serviced, mine needs a gasket replacement)works great. There are sources to recork the clutch and the other parts. Doug Wildrick is the source for most of the clutch stuff, and Dale Cooper (http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/parts.htm) has gaskets etc. They are in the HET Club.
To be more specific, yes you can replace the cork/wet clutch setup but it will cost you $$$$ since you will need to replace the fly wheel, custom made most likely, and find other off the shelf items to coble together what you are looking for. My '50 was off the road for over 40 years and the clutch took a little work but seems to work just fine. Again mine has a leak but I plan to get that fixed in the next week or so, as soon as my gaskets arrive.0 -
If you're dead set on it, get your wallet out and contact Steve at http://www.uncommonengineering.com0
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Pacemaker500 wrote:Is there an after-market clutch replacement using modern materials for a 1950 Pacemaker Deluxe?
I am interested in a non-oil, non-cork, modern clutch system to reside inside the original housing.
Thanks...................Ed:)
Doesn't really seem like a good idea. The wet clutch is smooth & good for power transmission, besides requiring very little pedal pressure. All it'll cost for the changeover is about 2 cu. yards of cash for a system that won't operate as well!0 -
Of course, you can always use a modern GM automatic tranny...KGap (www.k-gap.com) has adapter plates for the 350 and 700R4 which I hear make an easy, clean installation. :cool:0
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Try www.wilcap.com they have adapter and flywheel for chev manual transmission, as well as automatics.0
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Yep it might work at that for $500 plus tranny it had better! Seems like a pretty expensive way to replace the cork clutch disk!
I forgot this does not include the custom drive shaft you will need to match up to the Chevy manual trans.0 -
WHY, what is the problem with the original.????????0
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Huddy42 wrote:WHY, what is the problem with the original.????????
It is currently stuck after sitting for 12 years. The owner kept it on jack stands and only started the engine once a year. Only driven once between 1975 and now (in 1993 Vintage Car Parade).
Since this will not be a show car and I want to drive it more, I was thinking I would put in a modern material clutch system.
However, I see it way to expensive. So now I have to figure out how to pull the clutch and have it rebuilt to specs. Hopefully even better than specs.0 -
Pacemaker, it might be possible to free the stuck clutch--Have you checked to see if it has any fluid in it? There are solutions you can add that may free it, I have a 53 Super Wasp that had a stuck clutch and i was able to free it up, works fine now--0
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Ed: you probably don't need to do all that. Your sticking clutch is a very common problem and one that is usually fixable with little effort. You can probably get this taken care of with just a couple hours time and a few dollars worth of chemicals.
Go to Ken Cates' "Step-Down" page at http://members.aol.com/stepdown53/STEPDOWNPG.html .
Click on the CLUTCH link at the left side. You'll find a short description of how to free the clutch with a home-made solvent, poured into your clutch filler hole. You leave this in the clutch for a day or so, rotate the engine so it gets around into the corks, let it sit, rotate again, and so forth. Chances are, it will break free with no more than this.
Bookmark Ken Cates' page so you can come back to it. There is a lot of good information there. Better yet (if you haven't done this) join the Hudson club and your local Hudson chapter. Nothing better than having friends nearby to offer advice, help and leads on parts.0 -
Does anyone know how much difference there is with this kit that is offered above, and the plate that Dany Spring offers?
I kind of like the idea of putting a turbo 350 behind my hudson. I got a BOP trans laying around that has no miles on it, and would rather drive automatic anyway. It doen't solve my OD problem or get the gear lower, but hey, I could swap the rear to a later 3:08, I guess...
$500 doesn't seem that bad, if it comes with a flywheel, and all, the driveshaft concerns me, as does a mounting point, the mini mopar starters are easy to find, maybe a 12V conversion might have to occur...0 -
I'm looking at that Wilcap adapter really closely too.
I like the prospect of mating up the more common Chevy standard transmissions. Or any more readily available transmission type for that matter.
One tiny little thing. If you are going to use the Hudson harmonic balancer, there is no more timing hole in the backing plate. That seems to be where the Mopar Mini is mounted. Do NOT use your stock harmonic balancer as a timing reference, it moves - alot! The inertia ring, which is the entire assembly that you outwardly see, is held by friction against rubber disks sandwiched between it and the hub. I'm going with a modified crank snout and ATI damper so I will be able to use it as a timing reference. Not the case for the stock 308.
I have a feeling I'm going to need something else behind the stroker besides the trusty corkified Hudson clutch. I intend to hammer on that engine and can foresee some clutch wear/breakage. Its better to break pieces that can be easily replaced rather than overworking Dr. Doug with core pieces that may not be exchangeable.
The Wilcap adapter seems worth the money, but as they say - have your plans made BEFORE buying the adapter. I may have lucked out and can use it regardless of prior knowledge.
Mark0 -
from talking to Dr. Doug yesterday, it doesn't seem that there is much anything that can go in front of his clutch that it will not hold, abuse included. I guess the problem is heat, an that's going to happen with any clutch that you got. It sounds like even the late Jack CLifford was still using hudson wet clutches.
I handled a few of his clutch discs, yesterday, they are truly works of art.
remember, worst case, you're only out $45 for a core, right?
But seriously, I wanted an automatic for some time, and this might be my easy way to do it.0 -
hudsonkid wrote:from talking to Dr. Doug yesterday, it doesn't seem that there is much anything that can go in front of his clutch that it will not hold, abuse included. I guess the problem is heat, an that's going to happen with any clutch that you got. It sounds like even the late Jack CLifford was still using hudson wet clutches.
I handled a few of his clutch discs, yesterday, they are truly works of art.
remember, worst case, you're only out $45 for a core, right?
But seriously, I wanted an automatic for some time, and this might be my easy way to do it.
I do like Dr Doug, and I do have the utmost faith in his workmanship. I've listened to the racing heritage of the corkified clutch - and can't dispute the sources at all.
That being said, I intend on abusing the clutch. The roundhouse Wildrick clutch assembly plus authentic Hudsonite costs as much as the Wilcap adapter.
10" Clutch, 10" Pressure Plate, Throwout Bearing rebuild, pilot bearing, flywheel reconditioning, gasket, and clutch fluid. $554.00. And I still owe him a pressure plate core as the one I had wasn't suitable. This is his recipe for bulletproof clutch operation and I fully believe him. However, if any one part of this breaks under severe usage - I'm looking at quite a bit of expense as compared to the more common chevrolet performance aftermarket pieces rated for higher torque numbers.
I'm thinking the beautiful Wildrick Hudson clutch is more suited to the 4 barreled 308 and an occasional romp, with unparalelled performance under normal usage. I'm not spending the time/money/effort on the stroker just to look at it - its gonna get run as often as I can.
$554.00 vs $495 + parts to pull off the Chevy backend swap. I dunno, its not going to be a cheap endeavor any way you slice it.
Mark0 -
`Hudsonator wrote:I do like Dr Doug, and I do have the utmost faith in his workmanship. I've listened to the racing heritage of the corkified clutch - and can't dispute the sources at all.
That being said, I intend on abusing the clutch. The roundhouse Wildrick clutch assembly plus authentic Hudsonite costs as much as the Wilcap adapter.
10" Clutch, 10" Pressure Plate, Throwout Bearing rebuild, pilot bearing, flywheel reconditioning, gasket, and clutch fluid. $554.00. And I still owe him a pressure plate core as the one I had wasn't suitable. This is his recipe for bulletproof clutch operation and I fully believe him. However, if any one part of this breaks under severe usage - I'm looking at quite a bit of expense as compared to the more common chevrolet performance aftermarket pieces rated for higher torque numbers.
I'm thinking the beautiful Wildrick Hudson clutch is more suited to the 4 barreled 308 and an occasional romp, with unparalelled performance under normal usage. I'm not spending the time/money/effort on the stroker just to look at it - its gonna get run as often as I can.
$554.00 vs $495 + parts to pull off the Chevy backend swap. I dunno, its not going to be a cheap endeavor any way you slice it.
Mark
Do you know if the wilcap actually comes with a prepped and ready to go flywheel? I find it hard to beleive that it could be that easy....
Also, I see your point. figuring that parts are gonna break, I guess it makes more sense, since figure the plentifulness of the chevy parts, it isn't like you can break the adapter, or even really screw up the flywheel too bad, and the trannys are fairly plentiful.
In the case of the automatic, turbo 350's and 400's are cheap and plentiful, and they're cheap to get rebuilt. Once you got it all in place, the worst that can happen is messing up the trans.....0 -
My '51 7X pacemaker is bored out to 4" and has an Iskenderian cam in it with Twin H and a 4:10 gear, stick w/ OD. I have one of Doug's clutches in it. The weakest link is the two piece driveshaft, NOT the clutch. If I abuse it too much, I am replacing the mounts on the carrier. The last time the car was dumped off of the line, the car bunny hopped all over the place and the mounts broke. At that time there was 4:56 in the car. And clutch compound isn't that expensive. As I always say- do what you want, but don't think that the clutch is the weak point. Now if you start talking about synchronized and non synchronized trannies, that's a different story...........0
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K-gap sells an GM auto conversion kit and so does Randy Maas at 21st Century Hudson (http://21stcenturyhudson.net/products.htm). Randy's 350/400 Turbo kit is $500.
It would seem the cork clutch is pretty heavy duty since I am sure the Nascar guys in the old days really romped on these clutch and tranny setups.0 -
7XPacemaker wrote:My '51 7X pacemaker is bored out to 4" and has an Iskenderian cam in it with Twin H and a 4:10 gear, stick w/ OD. I have one of Doug's clutches in it. The weakest link is the two piece driveshaft, NOT the clutch. If I abuse it too much, I am replacing the mounts on the carrier. The last time the car was dumped off of the line, the car bunny hopped all over the place and the mounts broke. At that time there was 4:56 in the car. And clutch compound isn't that expensive. As I always say- do what you want, but don't think that the clutch is the weak point. Now if you start talking about synchronized and non synchronized trannies, that's a different story...........
Talk to me about your stick w/OD and rear end ratios.
Which stick is it. T-86/R-10.
How has your tranny held up under such abuse. The MAIN thing I'm worried about is the input shaft of the Hudson transmissions. I was thinking, perhaps the oil clutch is the input shaft's salvation?
You evidently have been down a road I'm just now turning onto. So, I'm listening to you.
I would really like to know your experiance with rear end ratios, I'm about to embark on that odyssy myself.
My engine will be 5" stroke, 3.3880 bore, Maas Hot street cam, 7x valves and associated relief, with triple weber induction.
Mark0 -
Jon B wrote:Ed: you probably don't need to do all that. Your sticking clutch is a very common problem and one that is usually fixable with little effort. You can probably get this taken care of with just a couple hours time and a few dollars worth of chemicals.
Go to Ken Cates' "Step-Down" page at http://members.aol.com/stepdown53/STEPDOWNPG.html .
Click on the CLUTCH link at the left side. You'll find a short description of how to free the clutch with a home-made solvent, poured into your clutch filler hole. You leave this in the clutch for a day or so, rotate the engine so it gets around into the corks, let it sit, rotate again, and so forth. Chances are, it will break free with no more than this.
Bookmark Ken Cates' page so you can come back to it. There is a lot of good information there. Better yet (if you haven't done this) join the Hudson club and your local Hudson chapter. Nothing better than having friends nearby to offer advice, help and leads on parts.
Thank you. The membership application is in the mail to Kansas. No club here in Johnstown, PA. Link book marked and I will read it next.
All the other references are great as well.0 -
You live within the western boundary of the Pennsylvania Dutch Chapter, but very close to the eastern boundary of the Western Reserve Chapter. You can determine who (in the chapter) to contact, if you go to the H-E-T homepage at
http://www.hudsonclub.org/ and click on the link for CHAPTERS.0 -
7XPacemaker wrote:My '51 7X pacemaker is bored out to 4" and has an Iskenderian cam in it with Twin H and a 4:10 gear, stick w/ OD. I have one of Doug's clutches in it. The weakest link is the two piece driveshaft, NOT the clutch. If I abuse it too much, I am replacing the mounts on the carrier. The last time the car was dumped off of the line, the car bunny hopped all over the place and the mounts broke. At that time there was 4:56 in the car. And clutch compound isn't that expensive. As I always say- do what you want, but don't think that the clutch is the weak point. Now if you start talking about synchronized and non synchronized trannies, that's a different story...........
is that a black 51 pacemaker coupe?
think we saw it at Doc's meet the last two years....
no excuse for you not to be there!0 -
Jon B wrote:You live within the western boundary of the Pennsylvania Dutch Chapter, but very close to the eastern boundary of the Western Reserve Chapter. You can determine who (in the chapter) to contact, if you go to the H-E-T homepage at
http://www.hudsonclub.org/ and click on the link for CHAPTERS.
look to both chapters and possibly into maryland for activity. unfortunately residing to the edges, many meets will be further than you may like to d ay trip to, but take advantage of the neighbors events. for example, Oct 22 the western reserve will be meeting near washington pa about a 2 hr ride for you. western reserve meets are typically well attended by members who do drive their hudsons. perhaps of particular interest to you, it is not unusual for (3) '50 pacemaker convertibles to be in attendence.0 -
`Hudsonator wrote:Talk to me about your stick w/OD and rear end ratios.
Which stick is it. T-86/R-10.
How has your tranny held up under such abuse. The MAIN thing I'm worried about is the input shaft of the Hudson transmissions. I was thinking, perhaps the oil clutch is the input shaft's salvation?
You evidently have been down a road I'm just now turning onto. So, I'm listening to you.
I would really like to know your experiance with rear end ratios, I'm about to embark on that odyssy myself.
My engine will be 5" stroke, 3.3880 bore, Maas Hot street cam, 7x valves and associated relief, with triple weber induction.
Mark
I am using a early single lever tranny. I have not had any problems with it at all. I had the 4:56 gears in it for awhile, but it absolutely killed the drivability of the car, even with overdrive. The 4:10 gears make it a little better. Definately use the spicer rear if you can get one. Another thing..definately use the AMC mounts on the engine or at the very least-the drivers side. The stock mount will pull the stud right out of the mount. When I ran the stock mounts, I had to chain the drivers side of the block down. One thing that I had problems with was heat. I had a custom radiator made (to the tune of $500) that holds 5 gallons of coolant and I took the heater core out! The factory 155 degree thermostat seems to do well.0 -
Yes, That is my black pacemaker coupe in your Doc's meets pictures.0
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Yep, that's the one.....0
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