TRICO Vacuum Pump, check valve - how to make it work

Unknown
Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Trying to make the vacuum wipers on the old 49 Commodore work even going up hills - bought a TRICO Vacuum Accessory Pump from wiperman.com. It came in the original box and mounts to the generator. It is driven off the back of the fan belt via a pulley and friction. The pump generates vacuum. You run the vacuum line up to a "check valve". The "check valve" is hooked to the manifold vacuum line, the accessory vacuum line ( the TRICO Pump ) and then out to the wiper motor. The check valve supplied does not function. No surprise after sitting in the original box all these years. My question is - does anyone have a suggestion on how to restore this check valve to functioning status? I thought about putting WD-40 in the valve to see if I could free it. Any other ideas? Anyone know of another source for a check valve that would block off the line to the manifold if the manifold lost vacuum ( like when you go up that hill ) and allow the accessory pump to supply the vacuum until you lifted off the gas pedal. Would a single in-line check valve ( in the line going to the manifold ) perform the same function? Any sources for this?



BST RGDS

GARY ( happychris )

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Sounds like the old check valve has given up the ghost. Although you could try hitting it up with a small hand held vacuum pump for kicks, the valve's rubber diaphragm has probably turned to stone. If that fails, just visit your local junk yard and grab a few check valves from later model vehicles.
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Interesting. I've had the same pump on my '37 for probably 30 years and wasn't aware that it was even possible for the the check valve to malfunction! Maybe it has, and my pump has only been working minimally, all these years! Yet the wipers DO function while driving up a hill, so I suspect that my valve has (somehow, miraculously!) survived.



    First, are you sure it's not functioning? Is there no difference in wiper speed when you run the wipers off the manifold, then plug in the check valve with pump attached? Are you sure the wiper motor is in good order, to begin with? And if so, are you sure all the cable pulleys and the transmissions are well oiled and greased? (Pull the vacuum line from the wiper and try moving it back and forth, to see how easy it is to move the blades; you might even remove the arms first, to make it easy on yourself!)



    Next, have you contacted Mr. Ficken to ask what might be the matter? If for example, the flapper in the valve is made of leather (as the paddle seal within the wiper motor is), then soaking in neat's foot oil may rejuvenate it.



    (By the way, I assume you have installed the check valve correctly? I seem to recall there is an arrow or something stamped on it, telling which hose goes where.)



    Your last resort (as Dave has suggested) is to install a new check valve. There's an on-line place for polyethylene check valves; I used it recently for an interactive museum exhibit device I concocted. Go here to find various inexpensive check valves; look to the three in the lower right http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=45&Page=1&cookie%5Ftest=1 . Keep in mind that you now have a THREE-way check valve, so you will need to find some inexpensive 3-way tubing connectors and 'get creative'.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    The wiper motor works fine off the manifold vacuum. It does not function well off the TRICO Accessory Vacuum pump directly, it moves very slowly. I assumed that the point of the TRICO Accessory Vacuum Pump was to supliment the manifold vacuum when the manifold vacuum dropped off during acceleration or under load. I will try hitting it, and perhaps soaking it in neat's foot oil ( got to see if I have any ). I checked to be sure the valve was installed correctly - it was. There is a marking on the valve showing which port is connected to the manifold. The instructions show which port goes to the wiper motor and which goes to the accessory pump. I sent a note to Mr. Flicken and will see what he recommends. I will also check for a modern check valve - I figure that a one way valve in the line going to the manifold should work ( if manifold vacuum drops, then the valve closes and allows the accessory pump to supply vacuum. I think I will check my wiper system, as the accessory vacuum does not seem to work the system on its own - but it does work off manifold vacuum, so you can see my confusion.



    THANKS for the input and recommendations



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    At this point, I'm wondering if your 50 year old accessory is a dud. Unfortunately, parts of this type usually die from lack of use. It may be best just to send it back and get a refund if it cannot be repaired.
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Gary, did you test the Trico accessory pump by itself, with a vacuum gauge, to see what it's pulling? Maybe the check valve isn't the problem! I'm not sure what the pump should be pulling, but if it seems low to you, you might seal the edges of the pump (maybe by applying Scotch tape around the perimeter) to see if that improves the vacuum. There could be a leak around the edge of the diaphragm. Another possibility is that the diaphragm itself is torn or has a leak -- fairly easy to take that pump apart and check. On mine, I actually ran a bead of blue silcone sealant all around the edge, 'just in case'.



    Did you check the underside to see if the arm and link rod are actually moving, when you rotate the idler wheel? It's an off chance, but if the linkage is broken, of course, you won't be getting vacuum. (Advice here: lubricate that thing well, especially the felt on the underside. Those link rods have a nasty habit of wearing and snapping right where they hook around the arm, when they haven't been lubed.)
  • EssexAdv
    EssexAdv Expert Adviser, Member
    The check valve for the power brake vacuum reservoir on my 54 is a ball and seat. Check to see if your check valve is a diaphragm or a ball and seat. If it is a ball and seat it is probably just stuck. Clean it out with a suitable solvent and it should work fine
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I checked the TRICO Vacuum Accessory Pump today - the pump is pulling but I do not have a vacuum gauge to measure it. I hooked the accessory pump directly to the wipers - they do move, but very slowly. Hooked the wipers to the manifold vacuum and they move fine. Guess the accessory vacuum pump is not pulling as hard as the manifold. I am soaking the check valve in Neats Foot oil at present. I tried banging it hard to see if I could dislodge the valve - no luck so far, but as the accessory vacuum pump is not pulling enough vacuum, then making the check valve function will not solve anything. Perhaps the pump pulley was not tight enough against the back of the fan belt. It seemed to be turning fine, but was perhaps slipping. I checked the vacuum pump and the linkage is fine. Will pull the pump apart and check the diaphram next. Might try your "blue silicone" trick also



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • nick s
    nick s Senior Contributor
    happychris wrote:
    I checked the TRICO Vacuum Accessory Pump today - the pump is pulling but I do not have a vacuum gauge to measure it. I hooked the accessory pump directly to the wipers - they do move, but very slowly. Hooked the wipers to the manifold vacuum and they move fine. Guess the accessory vacuum pump is not pulling as hard as the manifold. I am soaking the check valve in Neats Foot oil at present. I tried banging it hard to see if I could dislodge the valve - no luck so far, but as the accessory vacuum pump is not pulling enough vacuum, then making the check valve function will not solve anything. Perhaps the pump pulley was not tight enough against the back of the fan belt. It seemed to be turning fine, but was perhaps slipping. I checked the vacuum pump and the linkage is fine. Will pull the pump apart and check the diaphram next. Might try your "blue silicone" trick also

    BST RGDS
    GARY ( happychris )
    reading your report you did not mention if you tested the pump at high rpm's where manifold vaccum would be at its lowest and pump at its highest. the check valve would be to allow the manifold vaccum to run the wipers at low rpms. not sure of the construction of your pump, but letting it suck through some of the neatsfoot oil may do it some good if the problem is a result of dried seals.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I have the check valve soaking in Neat's Foot Oil as we speak. I did only test the pump at low throttle settings - but when I drove the car, the wipers would still stop while going up a hill or depressing the throttle, so I assumed the output of the accessory vacuum pump was not doing the job. I currently have the pump off the car and back on the bench. Think I will open it up and check the diaphram for cracks, leaks, or rips - then reassemble and reinstall. I didn't want to put too much tension on the pulley per the warning in the instructions but the pulley seemed to be driven by the fan belt ( could have been slipping though )



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Somehow I think you'll get this pump working (mine, as I say, has worked fine these past 25 or so years), but let me ask you: had you ever considered simply purchasing a dual-action fuel pump? These have the vacuum pump built into them, and instead of having the external check valve, they simply route the vacuum line from the manifold to the fuel pump, and out the other side to the wiper lines. It was a factory option, and I thought they worked very well. The Trico accessory pump is great for guys with older, 'pre-dual-action-pump' cars, but cars from the late 30's and up can accommodate those dual action fuel pumps.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    That is how this started - my dual action pump was the source of my oil leakage - it would spray out oil at highway speeds, out of the large vent between the two pump sections. I found this failure mode was common. My dual action pump lasted less than one year and was from a high priced source ( Kanter ). Bill A suggested that the best modification a Hudson owner can make is to replace the dual action fuel pump with a single action fuel pump from a 258 CI AMC Eagle. The pump change worked great - the fuel no longer drains back into the fuel line like it did with the dual action pump. BUT - no more vacuum booster. Also, the vacuum wipers would stop during acceleration even with the dual action pump as a booster. Now there might be a hint somewhere there.



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Let's take time out for just a moment from our inquiry as to whether the vacuum pump is working or not.



    Are you sure your wiper motor, and all the linkages are working correctly? You said earlier that the wipers "work fine off the manifold vacuum". Just because they're moving, doesn't necessarily mean they're moving as well as they might. Think of it: you have hooked TWO different accessory vacuum pumps to them, and the wipers have STILL slowed down on hills. As you say, 'there might be a hint somewhere there". Yup. The hint might be that the wiper system is so bad that normal vacuum has barely enough power to move them at all!



    If you've had the wiper motor rebuilt recently, you can disregard this -- but since you have some neat's foot oil sitting around, why not use some of it to renew the wiper motor?



    You can run a short length of tube from the vacuum connection, to the bottle, then rotate the wiper linkage back and forth -- I think this may draw the oil into the motor. (Watch that the intake side of the motor doesn't leak oil onto your carpet or front floor mat, though!) Move the linkage back and forth so you get the oil spread around inside the motor and let it sit for a few days. This will soften up the leather seal inside and it may seal a bit better.



    Meanwhile, disconnect the linkage from the motor and take the wiper arms off the wiper transmissions. Now try moving the cables. Is everything smooth and easy to move? It should be effortless now that the motor and arms are disconnected. Try putting some oil and grease into the pulley bearings and work the linkage back and forth. If this lubrication has never ever been done it's about time to do so!



    The point is, though the wipers are moving with the engine on, they may be so "sticky" (and the motor seal may be leaking so badly) that they're only moving the minimal amount. So, when the vacuum decreases, they slow to a stop. If everything was shipshape they'd be moving even faster and when the vacuum decreased, they'd only slow down a bit.



    (Well, anyway, it's a thought! And by process of elimination you can then turn your attention back to the vacuum pump, confident in the knowledge that THAT is where the problem lies!)
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Sounds like a GREAT IDEA! I am going to try that tomorrow. It does seem suspicious that the wipers would not working going up hill when I had the Dual Action Pump on the car. I just thought that perhaps the vacuum portion of the pump was not functioning correctly, but now your input has prompted me to look further - will advise what I find



    THANKS

    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
This discussion has been closed.

Categories

In this Discussion