Wanted: Project 50-51 Hornet

Unknown
Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Hello,



I have been looking for some time now a resto project 50-51 Hornet, could be a 4dr or 2dr, does not have to be running but would like min rust, min dent body, and at the very least pushable. In all honesty I would prefer the 4dr model with the sun visor. I have seen the hornet posted as Super Six's. Is that just a trim package, excuse me but I am a little new with the Hudson's trim packages. I live in Southern IL so the closer to me the vehicle is the more likely I will buy that listing over the others unless it is a steal. I also have one last question, I have seen the Hornets with the large rear windows, what would the significance be of one with a small oval type rear window on a 4dr model. Sorry I have no pics it is something I saw in a field 5 yrs ago in NE. Again I don't know wheather this is a trim difference or if I am confusing models around. Thanks for taking the time to read this, Alex.

Comments

  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    You may want to do an 'overview' of all the 1948 to 54 Hudsons (the "Step-Down" body style) to grasp an idea of how Hornet fit into the picture. Hornets were made from 1951-54 by Hudson using the original Hudson "Step-Down" body, and from 1955-57 by American Motors (successor to Hudson) in the AMC (basically 1952 Nash) body style. They were Hudson's 'muscle car' and offered a premium trim level with a more-powerful engine over the rest of Hudson's offerings. They did not have a separate body style.



    The Super Six, Commodore, Wasp, Pacemaker and Hornet were all models of the 1948-54 "Step-Down" body. The wheelbases, sheet metal, trim, grilles, interior and exterior styling, engines and transmissions changed over the years. Add to this the difference in bodies (coupes and 2-door hardtops, 2- and 4-door sedans and convertibles) and you have a rather large number of variations.



    I'd advise you first to take a quick look at the following photo website, which shows the chronological progression of Hudsons from the postwar period to the end of production: http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/AmericanMotors/Hudson.html . Note that it's in two pages; you'll have to click the link at the end of the first page to continue.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I have a decent '52 Hornet sedan, price is reasonable. Vehicle is pretty straight and doesn't have rust in the usual places. PM me if you're interested and I'll get some photos to you.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    tristansdaz wrote:
    I have a decent '52 Hornet sedan, price is reasonable. Vehicle is pretty straight and doesn't have rust in the usual places. PM me if you're interested and I'll get some photos to you.
    Yes!!! That would be great. I sent you a PM as well. I figured out what Hudson I was looking for as well. It is a 1949 Hudson Commodore 8 Custom Sedan. I saw the picture of the one in the link that you sen tme Jon B. It was black with the tiny oval backwindow and the black vinly top. Did all of those models come with the Vinly top or was that an aftermarket choice that the owner made? Anyway thanks for the Reply, Alex.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Blackrider wrote:
    Yes!!! That would be great. I sent you a PM as well. I figured out what Hudson I was looking for as well. It is a 1949 Hudson Commodore 8 Custom Sedan. I saw the picture of the one in the link that you sen tme Jon B. It was black with the tiny oval backwindow and the black vinly top. Did all of those models come with the Vinly top or was that an aftermarket choice that the owner made? Anyway thanks for the Reply, Alex.

    The Commodore Sedan with the tiny oval back window and vinyl (actually leather) top is a Custom Limousine built for Mrs. Inez Chapin, the widow of one of the founders of the Hudson Motor Car Company.

    The '48 and '49 models had small back windows. The window was enlarged for '50 (as a two piece unit) and '51 (as a one piece unit), then enlarged again for '52-'54. The rear quarter windows also grew in size between '48 and '54.

    Bill
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Ok then, nothing special then, but I still want one. I found one up in NE some years back. I just fell in love with the body stlye, and have been looking for one ever since. Thank you for the clarification, Alex.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Hmmm, do we have someone here who might want to do a clone of Mrs. Chapin's Hudson?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Dave53-7C wrote:
    Hmmm, do we have someone here who might want to do a clone of Mrs. Chapin's Hudson?
    I would love to have that car...however I have always been off the beaten path when it comes to picking automobiles that I like. I own a 1972 Cheverolet Suburban 3door 4x4 and have been in the process of completing this project soon. So I wish to have little delay in purchasing the 49 so I can hop into the beginning stages of restoration with the 49 hudson.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Blackrider - if you're going to be shoping around or even looking for Hudson parts you might want to consider joining the national Hudson Essex Terraplane Club (HET). It'll help you tap into the network of people who can help you with your dream car. There's a chapter in the ST. Louis southern, IL. area, the Gateway chapter.



    -- Dave, I'd love to do a copy of the Chapin Limo. maybe even go so far as to actually stretch it into a 7-passenger....although I know it would be hard given the roofline. I'd run something like that for a wedding business. Hudson always tried to offer less-expensive cars to the buying public, I thought they should've tried to offer more upscale models but then I guess they would've been going head to head with Packard Caddilac and Lincoln.
  • MikeWA
    MikeWA Senior Contributor
    Here's a 48 and 49 Commodore 8 4 door package deal on eBay, in North Dakota



    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1948-48-1949-49-Hudson-Commodore-8-4-door-car_W0QQitemZ140057666144QQihZ004QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Mike (WA) wrote:
    Here's a 48 and 49 Commodore 8 4 door package deal on eBay, in North Dakota



    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1948-48-1949-49-Hudson-Commodore-8-4-door-car_W0QQitemZ140057666144QQihZ004QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



    This guy not only seems to have an attitude, he can't bother posting more than one photo...:eek:
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Aaron D. IL wrote:

    -- Dave, I'd love to do a copy of the Chapin Limo. maybe even go so far as to actually stretch it into a 7-passenger....although I know it would be hard given the roofline. I'd run something like that for a wedding business. Hudson always tried to offer less-expensive cars to the buying public, I thought they should've tried to offer more upscale models but then I guess they would've been going head to head with Packard Caddilac and Lincoln.



    Aaron, While you're at it, can you whip up a copy of Barit's custom Hudson? As for Hudson offering less expensive cars, the original purchase price of my 53 Hornet ($3,000.00+) didn't rank it as inexpensive. Before I was born, my father bought a new, top of the line, 51 Plymouth Cranbrook for $1,800.00. Although Hudson tried to offer more affordable models, most were priced more like Buicks.
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Blackrider wrote:
    Hello,

    I have been looking for some time now a resto project 50-51 Hornet, could be a 4dr or 2dr, does not have to be running but would like min rust, min dent body, and at the very least pushable. In all honesty I would prefer the 4dr model with the sun visor. I have seen the hornet posted as Super Six's. Is that just a trim package, excuse me but I am a little new with the Hudson's trim packages. I live in Southern IL so the closer to me the vehicle is the more likely I will buy that listing over the others unless it is a steal. I also have one last question, I have seen the Hornets with the large rear windows, what would the significance be of one with a small oval type rear window on a 4dr model. Sorry I have no pics it is something I saw in a field 5 yrs ago in NE. Again I don't know wheather this is a trim difference or if I am confusing models around. Thanks for taking the time to read this, Alex.

    I just read through this thread and was left confused and wanted to clarify - You are looking for a 48-49 2dr or 4dr (the only years with the smaller oval rear window)

    You do say Resto Project so What condition and price range? Looking for a runner or something to rod?
  • Nevada Hudson
    Nevada Hudson Senior Contributor
    The '50 coupe still had the small rear window.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    50 Pacemaker coupes and sedans still had the '48-'49 small rear window, all other models on the larger wheelbase recieved the newer larger window. I have no idea why. -- of and FYI blackrider, you can't get a '50 Hornet, those started in '51.



    -- Dave that's what I heard...... they were priced firmly in Buick territory...upper middle-class people's cars.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Aaron D. IL wrote:

    -- Dave that's what I heard...... they were priced firmly in Buick territory...upper middle-class people's cars.



    Aaron,



    Unlike the big three, Hudson's lack of diversity probably hurt their

    sales. They should have played Ford's game and offered several different

    "brands." How's your Pacemaker project coming along?
  • Nevada Hudson
    Nevada Hudson Senior Contributor
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    50 Pacemaker coupes and sedans still had the '48-'49 small rear window, all other models on the larger wheelbase recieved the newer larger window. I have no idea why. -- of and FYI blackrider, you can't get a '50 Hornet, those started in '51.



    -- Dave that's what I heard...... they were priced firmly in Buick territory...upper middle-class people's cars.



    I Have several friends in the H.E.T. that have 1950 Commodore 6 coupes with the small rear window (factory). See page 291 of Don Butler's book "The History Of Hudson" for a photo of one. There is another photo of one on page 36 of "Cars Of The Fabulous'50s " by Consumer guide. Another photo of Dix Helland's 1950 Commodore 6 on page 57 of June 1986 issue of "Collectible Automoble." Bill Albright had a beautiful 1950 commodore 6 coupe published in several national car related publications.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Nevada - I was looking at Butler's book, you're right I wonder if the rear window enlargement was a change made mid-year rather than for all 1950 senior models (124" WB)



    Dave - the '50 Pacemaker project is kinda slow partly due to weather. I looking for someone to do an engine Rebuild on my 232 at a reasonable price. I'm trying to see if I can partially trade a modern Dodge 4 cyl 5 spd in exchange for the engine work. Not sure if I should rebuild the 1950 232 block that's in the car. I have a 1951 232 block that's out of the car but but has busted headbolts.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Nevada - I was looking at Butler's book, you're right I wonder if the rear window enlargement was a change made mid-year rather than for all 1950 senior models (124" WB)



    Dave - the '50 Pacemaker project is kinda slow partly due to weather. I looking for someone to do an engine Rebuild on my 232 at a reasonable price. I'm trying to see if I can partially trade a modern Dodge 4 cyl 5 spd in exchange for the engine work. Not sure if I should rebuild the 1950 232 block that's in the car. I have a 1951 232 block that's out of the car but but has busted headbolts.



    all 50 coupes got the 48-49 small rear window, regardless of model....



    no mid year change, just the way it was.



    I think it had something to do with the stamping dies for the roof section, not wanting to retool for the year change, for the coupe body. (just what I heard...) since the bulk of the cars sold were 4 doors anyway...
  • Nevada Hudson
    Nevada Hudson Senior Contributor
    Aaron, I have a '50 Commodore 6 sedan and it has the large split rear window. Maybe Hudson did not want to spend the $ to enlarge the coupes until 1951 when they did a facelift on all models. Hudsonly.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Nevada - I was looking at Butler's book, you're right I wonder if the rear window enlargement was a change made mid-year rather than for all 1950 senior models (124" WB)



    Dave - the '50 Pacemaker project is kinda slow partly due to weather. I looking for someone to do an engine Rebuild on my 232 at a reasonable price. I'm trying to see if I can partially trade a modern Dodge 4 cyl 5 spd in exchange for the engine work. Not sure if I should rebuild the 1950 232 block that's in the car. I have a 1951 232 block that's out of the car but but has busted headbolts.



    Aaron,



    I could be wrong, but this may be a good time of year to strike a bargain with engine rebuilders. As to which engine to rebuild, it may come down to a matter of which will be the most cost effective. Of course, originality is something else that you may wish to ponder.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Clarifications all around,

    Tristandaz I have not recieved any pictures from you yet. Just figured I would let you know. Aron D. IL I do believe I will take a look at joining the H.E.T. in the future and thank you for your advise. Mike about the package deal on E-Bay thanks for the heads up but your right the guy seemed a little on the angry side. He probrobly just had too many bad experiences with E-Bay Buyers and sellers. Rambos_Ride as far as what I am looking for is something within the 1k-3k range, 1948-1949, 4dr, to Resto Poss Rod depending on Condition and avail. parts. The only must that I have is that the car is not riddled with rust, there is no major body damage, and the frame is straight.

    Well I hope I haven't left anyone out and if I did I appologize, Thanks Again.



    Alex
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Alex, its currently snowing here in Utah. Will get photos on Saturday and send your way. I sent PM with price for you. Car came from Bill Albright and is a southern California car originally. If you want the large rear window '52, this is a great car to start with!
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Blackrider wrote:
    Clarifications all around,
    Tristandaz I have not recieved any pictures from you yet. Just figured I would let you know. Aron D. IL I do believe I will take a look at joining the H.E.T. in the future and thank you for your advise. Mike about the package deal on E-Bay thanks for the heads up but your right the guy seemed a little on the angry side. He probrobly just had too many bad experiences with E-Bay Buyers and sellers. Rambos_Ride as far as what I am looking for is something within the 1k-3k range, 1948-1949, 4dr, to Resto Poss Rod depending on Condition and avail. parts. The only must that I have is that the car is not riddled with rust, there is no major body damage, and the frame is straight.
    Well I hope I haven't left anyone out and if I did I appologize, Thanks Again.

    Alex

    Hi Alex,

    In that price range it will may be tough, not impossible - but tough to find a stepdown that doesn't have some rust kind of rust issues.

    If you haven't had a chance to look around my website I bought my 49 Hudson 4 dr Commodore on ebay for 1600 + 500 shipping about 2+ years ago. I did buy it sight-unseen and on the surface it didn't appear too bad - but there where certain areas of the car with extensive rust-out that needed repairs.

    For what I know about stepdowns I probably overpaid by about 500.00 based on the overall condition of the car when I got it.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hudson-1950-Car-Pacemaker-Flathead-6-Lead-Sled_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQihZ012QQitemZ220054136920QQrdZ1

    This is a 50 pacemaker 4dr with a BIN price of 1400.00 that is probably fairly similar in condition to mine other than mine was bone-stock and hadn't been painted...but even a car like this could be an affordable start or at least a parts car...

    50Project.jpg
  • Jon B
    Jon B Administrator
    Alex (Blackrider), when shopping please examine VERY CAREFULLY the condition of the perimeter frame from the rear wheel well on back. This is the most rust-vulnerable part of the body. And, as you may realize, there is no separate heavy-gauge steel frame on a Step-Down; it's a unit body. So when you get rust in the perimeter frame, you have a rather expensive problem to solve.



    Better to buy a Hudson with a really solid body (even if it's missing its drive train and a good deal of the interior) than to spend the same amount of money for something that looks and drives pretty good, but will require several thousands of dollars worth of frame restoration. Especially if you're going to street rod it anyway (and wouldn't need all the extra bric-a-brac).
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Alex - There's lots of '48-'49 Hudson step-down sedans out there that need a good home and need to be restored or brought back to the road. I think you may be able to find one in your price range if you do a little digging and are a little patient. As others said, rear perimeter frame rust is really what you want to be aware of. I wouldn't take one with a less than perfect frame unless you are an experienced welder and don't mind a lot of extra work. As long as you have a solid car to begin with, you can find all the other parts.

    Hudsons with frame rust are usually not in danger of caving in, but still it's better to avoid them all together. If you're looking at one tap around the back frame section with a hammer or screwdriver. If it punches through easily...keep shopping.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    One good thing to consider, is the fact there are plenty of 4 doors out there, to choose from, look for the right one, and don't just jump on the first one...
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I live in central Ohio 10mile South Of Columbus. I have a 51 Hornet Coupe. locked motor I took of head and has been soaking for about 10 Years! complete car. very minor rust on body. needs complete restoration. has tons of new and great used parts for it I bought on Ebay. Original light blue. would be a cool car to build a Doc Hudson. Radiator recored,new door hinges made,lots of trim for car, complete tuneup kit, clear Ohio title. Interior shot. body super straight came out of Kansas. up in air in my garage if any lookers I will ad pictures if I get time..My busy season until after holidays.

    Kenny. @ HETbadhudson@aol.com remove HET

    740-207-5113
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Hey there folks,

    Hey Bad Hudson, I sent you a PM. Tristansdaz I also sent you a PM. Rambos_Ride I took a look at your new place congrats, Love the shop, and thank you for that link, it is a little too far of a trip to make for me though. John B ., thank you for the information on the frame rot proned areas of the step downs. When I looked at that 49 some years back I noticed that they were uni-bodies and that is what I was most concerned about. Finding a car with a solid Frame and Body. I am not too worried about the interior, although definitely would like to get one that I didn't have to push around. My rental house also does not have a Garage, and the Ex took the last house and shop combo.:( Aaron D. /Hudson Kid Patience is something I didn't always have but as I get a little older I understand the importance of it. So I will keep looking and thank you all for the great advise and information.



    Sincerly,

    Alex
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