Fuel Pump Oil Leakage

SuperDave
SuperDave Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
Ever since i installed the dual action fuel pump on my 262 it blows oils out at highway speed. makes a mess. I don't think I have excess crankcase pressure. The road draft tube is clear and I never see any smoke only a small amount of water vapor during warm up in cold weather. I wonder if anyone had addressed this problem on their Hudson? I also wonder if I could make a gasket that had only a slit in it for the actuating arm so as to reduce the oil leak? It's a bear to reach due to the add on Air conditioning compressor brakets. I only want to go there one more time! Maybe go back to the single action pump? What say the Gurus?

Dave W. Fl:confused:

Comments

  • Uncle Josh
    Uncle Josh Senior Contributor
    Rebuild of your wiper motor by Bob Ficken is about the same price as a rebuilt double action pump. I'd go to a single pump.



    In the meantime, disconnect the upper air part of the pump, run the wipers from the manifold, and plug the pump connections and see what happens.



    The air part of my rebuilt one gave up the ghost after a few months so I plugged it. The previous rebuilt double pump leaked gas after a week. Dave K kindly replaced it.
  • J Spencer
    J Spencer Expert Adviser
    Super Dave. sounds like the same problem I had many moons ago. The oil would get all over the inner fender panel + elsewhere. It is the engine oil that is getting past an internal seal in the fuel pump, most likely.



    I installed a single action pump and no problem for 14-15 years. Buy the way my wipers didn't work good with double action pump either.



    Good Luck

    Hudsonly

    Jim Spencer
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Dave, I had the same problem while returning from a trip to Charlotte NC. I stopped in Kingsport, Tn. to drop off a friend and fortunately decided to check the oil before going on home. There was oil everywhere. The problem was that the double action pump had developed a pinhole in the vacumn diaphram and that let it pull engine oil from the block and pump it out a small vent hole on the side of the pump. I bought 4 more quarts of oil and by the time I got home I had lost almost two quarts of oil in the 75 mile trip home from Kingsport Tn to Newport Tn.
    I put a new double action pump on and have had no more trouble, but if it happens again I will go to a single action pump.
    Bob
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    put a 83 AMC fuel pump on.



    they're ~$15 from Autozone.



    lifetime warranty. direct bolt-up



    use vacuum fromthe manifold for the wipers, or buy some rain-x.



    that will fix you up!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    THE DOUBLE ACTION PUMP TAKES ABOUT 3 HORSEPOWER OFF YOUR ENGINE TO OPERATE. SUBJECT TO PUMPING OIL OUT AND ALSO LEAKING GAS INTO YOUR CRANKCASE. IF YOUR OIL LEVEL RISES AND SMELLS LIKE GAS JUNK IT AND GO TO THE SINGLE ACTION AMC PUMP. JUST REQUIRES A 180 BEND IN FUEL LINE TO GET UP TO THE CARB AND THEY ARE REALLY COST EFFECTIVE. YOU CAN CARRY 3 SPARES IN THE TRUNK FOR THE PRICE OF ONE DOUBLE ACT REBUILT. happy hudsoning, bill albright.. OFF ON A 600 MILE TRIP UP THE COAST OF CAL THIS WEEKEND WITH MY 53 HORNET CONV
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    Thanks for all the input.

    To summerize some..I swapped the pump to help the cruise control as well as the wipers.The old single action was pumping fuel just fine. I should remember the old saying "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it".

    It isn't using much oil. at least so I can see it on the dipstick, a little oil goes a long way on the frame and fender panel. I do have more vacuum since I put the DK rebuilt double pump on because the cruise control works better, The worn out vacuum wiper motor is my wiper problem for sure. I do use Rainex but like to hear that reassuring "flip flap". I wonder why the dual action pump has the big vent while the single actions don't?

    Soooo.. I will remove the double action, use a more commonly available AMC pump from Autozone and use a hidden vacuum can to keep the cruise control happy. I may get around to sending my wiper motor to Ficken in NY. His rebuild of the 54 wiper motor worked great. I think that cost $75.

    Thanks for the input, Dave w. Fl

    PS:road trip today.. Hope it doesn't rain!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    bill a wrote:
    THE DOUBLE ACTION PUMP TAKES ABOUT 3 HORSEPOWER OFF YOUR ENGINE TO OPERATE. SUBJECT TO PUMPING OIL OUT AND ALSO LEAKING GAS INTO YOUR CRANKCASE. IF YOUR OIL LEVEL RISES AND SMELLS LIKE GAS JUNK IT AND GO TO THE SINGLE ACTION AMC PUMP. JUST REQUIRES A 180 BEND IN FUEL LINE TO GET UP TO THE CARB AND THEY ARE REALLY COST EFFECTIVE. YOU CAN CARRY 3 SPARES IN THE TRUNK FOR THE PRICE OF ONE DOUBLE ACT REBUILT. happy hudsoning, bill albright.. OFF ON A 600 MILE TRIP UP THE COAST OF CAL THIS WEEKEND WITH MY 53 HORNET CONV



    Thanks for the vote of confidence!



    I got to say, this might be the single best modification you can do to a hudson. It just works great, and is cheap. The bend is tricky, but if you got someone in your area that does hydraulic hoses, spend the $25 and have one made.



    Have a great trip Bill.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited November 2013
    Do you happen to have a part number? Will the pump will work in a 1946 212ci 'splasher'? Any mods to the pump necessary, or special mounting considerations?

    If the splasher pump is the same as the double action and single action as the stepdowns, then it should work. I don't think they are. The pump seems to be a direct bolt up, with exception to the number of gaskets, Hudsondad used two, and I used one stack. His is on a Hornet motor, and mine is on a narrow block. Not sure why it would make a difference. Mine has logged a couple hundred miles, his has made a few illegal runs around the block, pumping off a can.

    For reference, have them look up a 83 AMC EAGLE with the 258 6 cylinder, or equivalent in it.

    Autozone fuel pump
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    SuperDave wrote:
    Thanks for all the input.

    To summerize some..I swapped the pump to help the cruise control as well as the wipers.The old single action was pumping fuel just fine. I should remember the old saying "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it".

    It isn't using much oil. at least so I can see it on the dipstick, a little oil goes a long way on the frame and fender panel. I do have more vacuum since I put the DK rebuilt double pump on because the cruise control works better, The worn out vacuum wiper motor is my wiper problem for sure. I do use Rainex but like to hear that reassuring "flip flap". I wonder why the dual action pump has the big vent while the single actions don't?

    Soooo.. I will remove the double action, use a more commonly available AMC pump from Autozone and use a hidden vacuum can to keep the cruise control happy. I may get around to sending my wiper motor to Ficken in NY. His rebuild of the 54 wiper motor worked great. I think that cost $75.

    Thanks for the input, Dave w. Fl

    PS:road trip today.. Hope it doesn't rain!



    I have been going NUTS trying to find the source of my oil leaks on my 49 Commodore!!!! I read this thread and go look - and sure enough the oil is coming from around the double action fuel pump. I replaced this fuel pump about a year ago with a unit from Kanter ( expensive )! Anyway, I too am on my way to AutoZone armed with the ordering information supplied - THANKS!



    When you guys are talking about Bob Ficken in NY rebuilding wiper motors - are you talking about a rebuild of the vacuum wiper motors, or conversion to electric? My vacuum wiper motor is good ( as good as a vacuum wiper motor can be ), so what I want to find is the person / source to get a conversion from a vacuum wiper to an electric wiper ( 6V ). Does anyone know what company or individual does this and how to contact them? Will use Rainex in the meantime



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    BY the way - I am assuming that the AMC Single Action Fuel Pump from AutoZone also fits the Straight Eight, as well as the Hudson 6 - am I correct in this assumption??????????????



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    happychris wrote:
    I have been going NUTS trying to find the source of my oil leaks on my 49 Commodore!!!! I read this thread and go look - and sure enough the oil is coming from around the double action fuel pump. I replaced this fuel pump about a year ago with a unit from Kanter ( expensive )! Anyway, I too am on my way to AutoZone armed with the ordering information supplied - THANKS!



    When you guys are talking about Bob Ficken in NY rebuilding wiper motors - are you talking about a rebuild of the vacuum wiper motors, or conversion to electric? My vacuum wiper motor is good ( as good as a vacuum wiper motor can be ), so what I want to find is the person / source to get a conversion from a vacuum wiper to an electric wiper ( 6V ). Does anyone know what company or individual does this and how to contact them? Will use Rainex in the meantime



    BST RGDS



    GARY ( happychris )



    Bob Ficken rebuilds vacuum wiper motors.



    Try these threads for electric wiper convensions:



    http://www.classiccar.com/forums/sho...lectric+wipers



    http://www.classiccar.com/forums/sho...lectric+wipers



    These are 12 volt systems. To use them with 6 volts, try powering them with a DC-DC Converter from Analytic Systems that changes 6 volts in to 12 volts.



    http://www.analyticsystems.com/
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    happychris wrote:
    BY the way - I am assuming that the AMC Single Action Fuel Pump from AutoZone also fits the Straight Eight, as well as the Hudson 6 - am I correct in this assumption??????????????



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )



    ouch....



    bold type....



    too hard to read.....



    hahaha....



    I would have to reason that a AMC pump would fit the 8 as well, since they share the same pumps as the 6's, right? if they use a 583 or 584 pump as well, then sure, the AMC pump should fit fine.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    sorry RICK, THE AMC PUMP WILL NOT WORK ON SPLASHER ENGINES. DIFFERENT ARM, STEPDOWNS ONLY 6S OR 8S IT WILL WORK, GOOD LUCK, BILL ALBRIGHT
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Bill A. ( or anyone else ) - I got it that the AMC pump will fit the 6 or the 8 cyl stepdown. My question now is do you have to use the spacers from the double action pump on the single action AutoZone AMC fuel pump? I bought the pump today, want to install it and see if that is the only source of my oil leaks. Sure is wet ( with oil ) beneath and below the fuel pump area.



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Happychris, yes you MUST use the gasket stack on the amc pump or you will break it. Trust me I found out the hard way!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    THANK YOU FOR THAT WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I will use the gasket stack from the current double action pump. Again, THANKS SO MUCH for the warning / advise. I really don't want to find out the hard way.



    I am surprised someone would answer so quickly, especially as it is so late - but thanks!



    BST RDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I put the new AutoZone single action fuel pump on the 49 today. Boy, that 90 degree bend has to be TIGHT to allow clearance between the bottom of the pump and the lip on the bottom of the engine block! I bought two steel brake lines so I had 4 chances ( cut each line in 1/2 ). 1st try I kinked the line, 2nd try I used a tubing bender but the radius was far to large to fit in the clearance you have, 3rd try was closer, but still too much of a radius to fit. I tried to use a 90 degree elbow - wondered why no one else recommended that. I found out why - using the 90 degree brass elbow caused interference with the lip on the bottom of the engine block. When I tightened it, the interference kept the pump from seating against the side of the block so I ended up with an oil leak. Had to pull the pump again and remove the 90 degree elbow. 4th try at bending the 90 degree angle was a success. That time I had a tight enough radius to allow clearance and allow the pump to seat against the side of the block. One additional thing to watch - the bolts are shoulder bolt. The new AutoZone Fuel Pump is thinner than the old double action pump. You tighten the bolts and they bottom, yet the pump is not tight against the block. Solution is to add washers on the bolts.



    Finally got the pump mounted with no oil leaks or fuel leaks ( sort of a good thing ). Only took 5 tries, 4 attempts at bending the steel fuel lines, one failed attempt at a brass 90 degree fitting, and some swearing. I did verify that there was oil coming from the vent on the double action fuel pump, so if you have oil on the cross member and can't figure out where it is coming from look at your double action pump. I don't think I would have found this leak if it were not for the Hudson Forum and this thread - THANKS!



    Question - where would anyone recommend taping the engine vacuum to run the wiper motor? Any other alternatives, like mounting a vacuum pump somewhere?



    BST RGDS

    GARY ( happychris )
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I Seem To Have The Same Oil Leak, But I Already Have A Single Action, Can The Single Action Pump Do The Same Thing. [spreading Oil Underneath Car]
  • mars55
    mars55 Senior Contributor
    dummy wrote:
    I Seem To Have The Same Oil Leak, But I Already Have A Single Action, Can The Single Action Pump Do The Same Thing. [spreading Oil Underneath Car]



    No it cann't. If the diaphragm developed a leak, you would get gas in the oil. However, if the fuel pump is loose or the gasket is bad you can get oil leak from the mounting. Also, from the valve covers. A good way to check for oil leaks is to clean the engine and then drive the car. It is then easy to see where the oil is coming from.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    bill a wrote:
    THE DOUBLE ACTION PUMP TAKES ABOUT 3 HORSEPOWER OFF YOUR ENGINE TO OPERATE.



    What gets added back if one would switch to an electric 6V pump? Or just the single action pump (Hudson OEM or AMC)?



    Curious as to the operational effects of the simple pump in the overall power output of the engines.



    Nice bit of info to know.
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