Header install
Ok, going home for X-Mas. Gonna drive my Hornet while I'm home. Also gonna install my Clifford 6 into 2 header and dual exhaust before having it shipped 3000 miles to my new home. My question is this, Do I have everything I need?
1. Header
2. Header gasket
3. Exhaust flanges (came with headers)
4. 6=8 stickers
5. Exhaust shop
Do I need to do anything to the intake manifold?
1. Header
2. Header gasket
3. Exhaust flanges (came with headers)
4. 6=8 stickers
5. Exhaust shop
Do I need to do anything to the intake manifold?
0
Comments
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I spoke with Larry at Clifford Performance, and he said he will be glad to walk anyone through every detail of their Header instalation. Larry told me that anyone who has difficulty installing, or has problems with their Headers, talk to him, and he "will make it right."0
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You should not have to do anything to the intake manifold. When you install the header make sure you install it nice and flat to the gasket. Push it up tight and put a nut on each side to pull it into the gasket. Then remove the nuts and push the intake into place you will have to wiggle things around to get everything to fit. Now put on the flange washers those are the ones that are thick and have the curves in them and then tighten all of them slowly to get the header and the intake to seat evenly.
Now take it to the exhaust shop and have them fit your exhaust. When this is done and you have driven it back home remove the backing from the Clifford sticker and either put it under your hood or on your tool box.0 -
hornet53 wrote:Ok, going home for X-Mas. Gonna drive my Hornet while I'm home. Also gonna install my Clifford 6 into 2 header and dual exhaust before having it shipped 3000 miles to my new home. My question is this, Do I have everything I need?
1. Header
2. Header gasket
3. Exhaust flanges (came with headers)
4. 6=8 stickers
5. Exhaust shop
Do I need to do anything to the intake manifold?
If your running a stock intake manifold, or a twin H, you'll have to find a method to close off the open part on the bottom where it meets with the exhaust manifold. Otherwise you might have some problems. Seems most people use a standard plate bolted to the bottom, probably make a gasket, or use the stock style gasket that was between the intake and exhaust manifold in the first place.
If you're running an edmunds or clifford, these of course are one piece.0 -
Hornet 53
That DEEP-SOUND that will be heard when it makes its EXIT from the EXIT-PIPES will let them know that it IT IS NOT the sound that is heard everyday and can also let then KNOW what is that is causing it.
A very nice Mylar decal that is Red-White-Blue and is 6 1/4 x 4 7/8 that goes on the Inside fo the window glass or mounted on the back-side of a clear plastic State-Plate on front of bumper or where ever. (HUDSON POWERED )
2 for 9.00 i pay shipping.
Email me at decrbennett37@sbcglobal.net and i will send you or anyone else a picture of them. ( please drop the dec in the email )
(i do not know how to post a picture yet )
Hudsonly Rudy.0 -
hornet53 wrote:Ok, going home for X-Mas. Gonna drive my Hornet while I'm home. Also gonna install my Clifford 6 into 2 header and dual exhaust before having it shipped 3000 miles to my new home. My question is this, Do I have everything I need?
1. Header
2. Header gasket
3. Exhaust flanges (came with headers)
4. 6=8 stickers
5. Exhaust shop
Do I need to do anything to the intake manifold?
What I've found with the Clifford headers is that you may run into a bit of difficulty with the center two exhaust pipes as they leave the block, cylinders 3 & 4.
The intake flange that bolts to the exhaust manifold won't clear these two header pipes as they leave the block. I've seen some very tastefully reworked Twin-H manifolds where the inside flange was cut off and the manifold ground down to appear as if it was never a part of the intake at all. The nicest example I've seen removed both the inside and outside exhaust flange, the intake has enough metal to reshape as if the exhaust flanges never existed on either side of the center. I don't know about the later Hash Twin-H intakes, but I know this is true of the earlier stepdown Twin-H intakes.
That is a really tight turn that these two exhaust manifold ports make, and probably one of the reasons for the valve seat cracks that appear in these two cylinders, the higher restriction causing alot more heat to be retained in the exhaust port of these two cylinders.
If you'll look just below the carburetor, where exhaust ports 3 & 4 exit the block, you can see where my early Clifford 4 barrel manifold was trimmed to clear the header pipes. This early 4-barrel manifold was originally cast to be able to bolt to an original exhaust manifold. Somebody had already trimmed the inside exhaust flange off, and was a big reason why this engine got this intake. The only other intake I had that didn't need surgery to fit was the dual 2 barrel Edmunds.
Like Rudy said, there is nothing you'll regret about the header install. I firmly believe the improved exhaust breathing will not only sound better, but will help your block avoid the dreaded valve seat cracking.
Mark0 -
Any of you guys out there that bought the shorty headers that Clifford made this year try them on a short wheelbase stepdown? I was told they fit long and short WB. What about the X-pipe? IS it worth the extra $$ and performance?0
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hudsondad wrote:Any of you guys out there that bought the shorty headers that Clifford made this year try them on a short wheelbase stepdown? I was told they fit long and short WB. What about the X-pipe? IS it worth the extra $$ and performance?
If I can ever get caught up enough, I'm going to test fit a set of those headers on my Super Wasp. I have the head and intake/exhaust off of it right now and want to do some "sizing up" before I assemble it again.
I'm wanting to find out if the Wasp is a suitable candidate for the stroker engine, or at least find out what it will take to shoehorn it in.
So, I'll let you know when I get the skinny on the situation.
Mark0 -
I forgot all about making the plate for the bottom of my Twin H intake. So yes you have to mod the intake by making a plate to cover the hole left from where it mated to the exhaust. I have the pipes and a Twin H manifold bolted up on my stand in the garage on a 308 I am rebuilding. These are the new Clifford headers they fit with the Twin H without any modication to the manifold. You have to wiggle things and make them line-up but I have not ground anything off the manifold. Of course I am doing this on an engine stand so doing while the engine is in the car would probably take the removal of the inner fender and the help of a friend to line things up.0
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i also wished they made headers for the 254 . also would like to see the 2x2 manifold for one . looking at keeping my 254 but want to make it look a tad custom .
mike0 -
51hornetA wrote:I forgot all about making the plate for the bottom of my Twin H intake. So yes you have to mod the intake by making a plate to cover the hole left from where it mated to the exhaust. I have the pipes and a Twin H manifold bolted up on my stand in the garage on a 308 I am rebuilding. These are the new Clifford headers they fit with the Twin H without any modication to the manifold. You have to wiggle things and make them line-up but I have not ground anything off the manifold. Of course I am doing this on an engine stand so doing while the engine is in the car would probably take the removal of the inner fender and the help of a friend to line things up.
Well that's odd?
I've got two sets of the new shorty headers - and none of them would fit without cutting of the engine side flange.
Unless, you smacked two dents in the 3 & 4 exhaust pipes. I was not about to do that, kinda defeats the purpose of the header in the first place.
I had both sets mocked up on three engines, on stands. Only the Edmunds would work without modifications.
I wonder how long you've had yours? I bought mine about nine months ago and talked to Larry about how to make them work with the manifolds and the triple Webers. He may have fixed the problem. The new design was done with a Clifford 4 barrel intake initially, which doesn't have any provision for the stock exhaust flange.
If he has tweaked the center pipes - excellent.
Mark0 -
Mark,
If you installed a Clifford head on that picture it would look exactly like the engine in Hubina (the nick name of my 50 Pacemaker).
I have found the long length Clifford header I have is a tight fit in the short wheel base 120" chassis. The front three cylinder half of the header actually lays on the chassis as it goes over the frame rail behind the upper control arm. I put mine on with the inner two fender panels out and the outer fender off as well so I could get to everything.
I do have to totally agree that the sound of a big cammed Big Six Hudson sounds Killer with open headers and that is why I added the exhaust cut outs. Just so the Chevy Boys can hear this 353 cubic inch monster wail like a banshe in heat!
Also since no body has mentioned it yet you will have to have eight arms like that Hindu Indian godess has to adjust your valves once the header is installed.
later got to go wake up the neighbors as I just pulled the cutouts on mine,
PaceRacer500 -
Mark,
I got my headers from Larry in June. First set would not fit so he sent me a new set that had a new flange on it. He had used a 308 engine and manifold to create them. The second set fits great with my Twin H manifold.0 -
I waited five months to get my headers. They were the polished finish and looked great. The rear flange hole position was short 1/4 inch and the stock and the 4 barrel manifold would not fit between the header flanges. Apparently they tack them in place and the drew up quite a bit when they welded them. I guess they weren't checked after they were finished. Sent them back and Larry sent me another set that he checked on a block they had.0
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hudsonkid wrote:If your running a stock intake manifold, or a twin H, you'll have to find a method to close off the open part on the bottom where it meets with the exhaust manifold. Otherwise you might have some problems. Seems most people use a standard plate bolted to the bottom, probably make a gasket, or use the stock style gasket that was between the intake and exhaust manifold in the first place.
If you're running an edmunds or clifford, these of course are one piece.
That's kinda what I was thinking, though I didn't know for sure. Maybe just a thin piece of aluminum with a cork gasket? Never been good at machinist-type work. Thanks for all the advise to everybody. I got my header from a guy up in Portland OR (some of you know him) and I believe he's had it for a while. Maybe from the batch before this last one, that didn't fit right out of the box, or even before that. It came with the old style oval "6=8" sticker, not the new ones they have with the flames. Yours?0 -
51hornetA wrote:Mark,
I got my headers from Larry in June. First set would not fit so he sent me a new set that had a new flange on it. He had used a 308 engine and manifold to create them. The second set fits great with my Twin H manifold.
That's probably the deal, he fixed the problem with the center tubes and other flange related problems. The whole conversation I had with Larry was if mine fit or not. Apparently, as others have said, the first batch that came off less than perfect and he called me to see if mine were okay. My flange was alright, but I did make mention of the center tubes and how they'd interfere with a Twin-H or any other stock Hudson intake.
Larry asked me if I was going to send my set back, I said no - I was making them work and we'd be just fine with the ones we had.
A week later, I had another set of headers on my porch (from the first batch) with no charge. That's how I came to have two sets of headers.
Back to my previous statement about trimming the inner flange off the Twin-H, I have seen that done quite alot with headers using the older Clifford design. I just assumed that was how it was done, especially when both my sets wouldn't clear the flange in any shape or fashion without grinding the flange off. If the new ones have been updated to not have that problem - that is truly a good thing.
Mark0 -
PaceRacer50 wrote:Mark,
If you installed a Clifford head on that picture it would look exactly like the engine in Hubina (the nick name of my 50 Pacemaker).
I have found the long length Clifford header I have is a tight fit in the short wheel base 120" chassis. The front three cylinder half of the header actually lays on the chassis as it goes over the frame rail behind the upper control arm. I put mine on with the inner two fender panels out and the outer fender off as well so I could get to everything.
I do have to totally agree that the sound of a big cammed Big Six Hudson sounds Killer with open headers and that is why I added the exhaust cut outs. Just so the Chevy Boys can hear this 353 cubic inch monster wail like a banshe in heat!
Also since no body has mentioned it yet you will have to have eight arms like that Hindu Indian godess has to adjust your valves once the header is installed.
later got to go wake up the neighbors as I just pulled the cutouts on mine,
PaceRacer50
The only thing hot about the engine I pictured, is what you can see. Headers and 4 barrel manifold. Everything else is bone stock with a '344' camshaft. It was painstakingly detailed to a greater degree inside than out, and its compression volumes balanced out in regards to chamber cc's - but that's it.
This is what's in the skunk works for my own 354 CID Hudson. This is taking alot of time, but I'm sure it will be worth it when finished.
I'm curious how the new Clifford headers fit a short wheelbase vehicle. Hopefully I'll find out while I'm off work for the holidays.
Mark0 -
I have a set of the older long headers on my 54 Hornet. I wanted a different look so I took the Twin H intake over to the band saw and one blade later. cut the center section out. After some judicious grinding and smoothing I had two single intakes. I closed off the center openings with 3/16 plate cut to fit and mig welded those on. Looks clean and shows more of headers. Lou Cote0
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MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! Webers!
My interference on the long tube set was right on top of the frame rail but they just touched there. No bending was needed. The tubes also touched the front crossmember that ties into the outer permeter frame at the rocker panel. I do have new motor mounts so engine rocking has not been a problem so far.
I am a little confused about the guys talking about adding a block off plate onto the exhaust crossover flange on the bottom of the intake manifold once the stock exhaust manifold has been removed. This area is not open to the intake ports unless its burned thru like all five of the twin-H manifolds I have bought were. Seams that those are noted for carbon build up in the exhaust crossover that corodes the manifold from the inside out once any condensation builds up.
If your engine will not run right with this area open they your intake manifold may be rotted thru in this area. One of mine was so bad that the entire bottom of the two plenums were totally rusted thru.
My feeling is when you unbolt the two manifolds and rust falls out in this area its time to look for a new manifold.
PaceRacer500 -
OK. Got it installed. What a pain those two piece with the slip joint! Plus the back three pipes sit on the frame and the fuel line that runs on top of the frame right at the point where the header sits. Was getting pretty frustrated... then I started it. Totally worth it! Oh man it sounds so good, I wish I didn't have to put the rest of the exhaust on it.0
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I've Been Running The Clifford Header With Stock Twin H Intake For Past 6 Months Without A Plate On Bottom Of Intake And Have Had No Problems.0
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Just thought i'd let you all see how I ran my duals. The pipes exit just below the pass rear door. The glasspacks are about 12 in long and do very little muffling. Such beautiful music.0
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