rear wheel bearings lube
Can any one tell me what lubricant to use for the inner rear wheel bearings.Those are the ones that are lubed by removing the small plugs on the axel casings behind the backing plates.The chart calls for "milled soap grease",whatever that is.Ron
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Comments
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just wheel bearing grease
soap is just a thickener they use to produce grease.0 -
You probably know this, but don't pump an awful lot of grease in there or you'll blow the seals. I have no idea how many 'pumps' of the lever that you do, nor what is the suggested interval. (Also...why are these called the 'inner' bearings, anyway? There is really only one bearing at that's way out at the backing plate; thus, one would think it's the 'outer'. The true 'inner' ones would be at the differential end of the axles, right?)0
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how much is enough and what do you like to use to force it in the hole?0
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After the plug is removed, you screw in a standard threaded grease fitting and use a common grease gun (with the right kind of grease in it, of course). Hard to say how much is enough ... maybe four strokes on a typical gun, squeezing lightly enough that you might be able to feel resistance if it developed (indicating the space was full).0
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RonS wrote:Can any one tell me what lubricant to use for the inner rear wheel bearings.Those are the ones that are lubed by removing the small plugs on the axel casings behind the backing plates.The chart calls for "milled soap grease",whatever that is.Ron
Ron,you really must think about what kind of condition the wheel bearings are in.If you know the history of the vehicle,and the axles have been pulled,bearings cleaned and inspected,and repacked,then you can do the lube as per the shop manual.If you don't know the condition,you should make this a very important repair on your vehicle.You can follow the shop manual on the removal procedures,but when you take the axles out,replace at least the outer axle seal[new neoprene seal] and inspect the hub area where the seal rides at and slides onto the tapered axle.I have seen the hub cracked,or fractured,usually where the key-way is machined.I have seen many cars with moisture inside the axle housing[from setting around for years] and the grease is broken down badly.If you just pull the plug out,shoot some new grease in it,it pushes the bad grease into the bearing first.I think it is best to just start fresh with known good parts and maintenece schedules.When you are doing the axles,you should also try to remove as much of the old gearlube in the rear axle.You can buy a suction gun for under $20.xx.Also,don't forget to torque the rear axle nuts to specs.0 -
thanks guys0
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Clutch guy wrote:Ron,you really must think about what kind of condition the wheel bearings are in.If you know the history of the vehicle,and the axles have been pulled,bearings cleaned and inspected,and repacked,then you can do the lube as per the shop manual.If you don't know the condition,you should make this a very important repair on your vehicle.You can follow the shop manual on the removal procedures,but when you take the axles out,replace at least the outer axle seal[new neoprene seal] and inspect the hub area where the seal rides at and slides onto the tapered axle.I have seen the hub cracked,or fractured,usually where the key-way is machined.I have seen many cars with moisture inside the axle housing[from setting around for years] and the grease is broken down badly.If you just pull the plug out,shoot some new grease in it,it pushes the bad grease into the bearing first.I think it is best to just start fresh with known good parts and maintenece schedules.When you are doing the axles,you should also try to remove as much of the old gearlube in the rear axle.You can buy a suction gun for under $20.xx.Also,don't forget to torque the rear axle nuts to specs.
Now that's what I call logical advice worth taking. Thanks Clutch guy!0 -
I go along with the advice given. In fact every Hudson, Essex, and Terraplane owner should carry out this essential maintenance if it hasn't been attended to. these bearings are extremely expensive, IF you can get them. Better a couple of hours maintenance and a bit of grease, than stranded somehwere with a failed bearing.
Geoff.0 -
Interesting news. Does this apply to stepdowns? I figured the bearings were lubed by the differential oil like most cars.0
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Nope, the bearings are sealed off from the inner section, and are seperately grease lubricated. Even the later Dana units, used from 1953, are the same, the bearings need regular maintenance, although these are not the dreaded 25877T tapered centre type as used earlier. In my experience, if the inner seal fails and oil gets through to the bearing it will in fact lubricate it, but the outer seal is incapable of retaining this, and the oil will eventually get out into the brakes. The lubrication charts call for 10,000 mile intervals between lubricating the rear bearings, but I know for a fact the vast majority of Hudson owners completely overlook this point.
Geoff.0 -
Geoff,
I have on several occasions advertised these very rare 25877T bearings on this forum and elsewhere, and have had only one taker .
I don't think owners realise how rare these bearings are, I also have several second hand bearings that owners could carry in their boot (trunk) in case of failure. Once the bearings I have in stock are gone, I would hate to think where you would ever find any more, I have searched about every bearing company in Australia, and all say" no we can not can supply".0 -
Huddy42 wrote:Geoff,
I have on several occasions advertised these very rare 25877T bearings on this forum and elsewhere, and have had only one taker .
I don't think owners realise how rare these bearings are, I also have several second hand bearings that owners could carry in their boot (trunk) in case of failure. Once the bearings I have in stock are gone, I would hate to think where you would ever find any more, I have searched about every bearing company in Australia, and all say" no we can not can supply".
I'll take a set, I sent you a PM.
Matt0 -
You know the old story Les - why do it now when you can wait for it to break when it will be infinitely more incovenient! I'm thankful my Hornet has the later diff without the tapered bearings. Got any 415T Essex rear bearings in your little hoard? these are also made of unobtainium. Best wishes,
Geoff.0 -
Geoff,
So what do you suggest on a 54 Hornet? Are there caps there I need to put a zerk in? Can't imagine why they would make these greaseable then cover them up so no one thinks about it. With a 600 mile round trip to the Western Regional it might be good to shoot some in if possible.0 -
Yes, there are plugs you can take out and replace with a grease nipple. they are located on the rear of the housing, just inside the hub. I don't know why they didn't put proper grease fittings there in the first place. Jack the car up and rotate the wheel as you pump the grease in, to distribute it right around the bearing.
Geoff.0 -
Yes - Stepdowns have the same style bearings and seals, I second Geoff's statement. If it was me I would pull the axles, inspect the bearings and races and then pack the bearings by hand. Once the axles were back in place put a small amount of grease (three or four pumps of the gun) into the service plug access. Remember many of our rear wheel bearings ( for example 1948 -1951) are no longer available new, so take care of them!
Fred0 -
The plugs were cheaper and more importantly diddn't lock up with caked grease, waiting a couple years in many if not most cases with a 10,000 mile service interval. i know i've had some fittings from year to year plug on me.
464, geoff's suggestion is minimum, but re-read fred and cluch guy's suggestions and consider them the best place to start especially when you don't know when and if the parts have ben addressed.. as mentioned it gives you the opportunity to inspect everything, if you go that route, take the time to inspect the keyseat as that is where a broken axle will begin, a little dye penetrant may save you a nightmare on the road by catching a broken axle long before it breaks. your seals and bearings are available. also remember the outer seal is what keeps that precious grease in your bearings and out of your precious brakes. Don't over grease as it will relieve through the outer seal.0 -
I should have also stressed that "packing" a bearing with grease is just that, not just wiping grease around the outside of the rollers. You need to wash all the old grease out of the bearing, and this entails several dunkings and scrubbings in degreaser, lacquer thinners, or kerosene. It must be thoroughly cleaned right through. Then hold up so you can see light between the rollers, and inspect the inner cone surface. There should be no pits or gouge marks on the inner race surface, or on the rollers themselves. if so you will have to replace the bearing. Having ascertained that the bearing is in good condition, you get a good quality bearing grease, and pack it into the bearing with a flat bladed knife, and keep packing it in until the grease comes out the other side of the bearing rollers. Then wipe a good quantity around the outside of the bearing and re- install in the car. The recess around the bearing should be almost full of grease, so that when you apply the grease gun you only need to put a few pumps in, just to push a bit more around so it can be picked up by the bearing as it turns.
Geoff.0 -
Thanks for the info. Wish they were just lubed by the gear oil, much much simpler.0
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I don't know of any that are lubed by the diff oil. To do this would involve some sort of circulating system, and an extremely tight outer seal. Heaps of designs use sealed bearings which are pressed on to the shafts. Problem with these is that being "sealed for the life of the unit" means that if you could somehow lubricate them they would last a lot longer! Later designs (not Hudson) are easier in some respects, in that you don't need a puller to get the brake drum off. I had a Vauxhall 3.3 which was easy to get the drums off, but you had to have a special press to remove and replace the bearings. Swings and roundabouts!
Geoff.0 -
You right Geoff, I don't have any of these in my little cupboard.
Les.0 -
ive seen diffs with oil lubed wheel bearings, but they are in heavy trucks and a little different to a car in a few ways. the oil level is around the centre height of the tube/housing and the gear carrier is lubed by splash.
further to geoffs suggestions on greasing bearings i put on some surgical gloves and take a palm full of grease and really work it through to get all of the air bubbles out of the bearing. if you are doing it right you will be blowing bubbles as you go along forcing the air out. this is important on heavy trailer bearings.
we use castrol apxt grease, its the best. simple as that.its blue. in nearly 20 years the only bearing failure was from when i brainfarted and overtightened a set.
i agree with nick s, leaving grease fittings in place just lets them clog and freeze up, so when you try pumping the grease in it just blows back at you. especially around wheels where they cop a fair share of road grime and moisture.
if re-using bearings make sure they remain with their orignal races or the different wear patterns cause hot spots and that means rapid bearing failure.
these are just a few tricks ive found along the way servicing cattle crates.0 -
I had my 53 Dana rebuilt and both bearings were bad and had worn into the shafts to such a degree that they needed new axle shafts. The guy that rebuilt the rear end said to use only 1 or 2 pumps of the manual gun. Any more would blow out the seal.
Jay0 -
Jay G wrote:I had my 53 Dana rebuilt and both bearings were bad and had worn into the shafts to such a degree that they needed new axle shafts. The guy that rebuilt the rear end said to use only 1 or 2 pumps of the manual gun. Any more would blow out the seal.
Jay
I believe the manual calls for 1.5 oz. capacity at this particular lube point. Keep in mind that this includes the grease that's already there, so I imagine 1 or 2 pumps is about right if you're doing it every 10,000 miles as recommended.0 -
Huddy42 wrote:Geoff,
I have on several occasions advertised these very rare 25877T bearings on this forum and elsewhere, and have had only one taker .
I don't think owners realise how rare these bearings are, I also have several second hand bearings that owners could carry in their boot (trunk) in case of failure. Once the bearings I have in stock are gone, I would hate to think where you would ever find any more, I have searched about every bearing company in Australia, and all say" no we can not can supply".
Les,
The bearings were delivered to me on Friday. They were expertly packaged and arrived in what I would call record time! Thanks a bunch, I'll be hoarding these away for the day that I'll need them.:D
Hudsonly,
Matt0 -
Your welcome Matt, glad I could help, as previous, they are near to non existent, so you did the right thing saving for a rainy day as they say.0
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This is a great thread. I have a 47 C8 and know this service needs to be done. My question is how do you get the axle shaft out? Does this require a puller? Also is there a preferred technique to replace the seals? Hoping to get this car in shape for the 250 mile drive to Auburn! Hope to see you there.
Any help is greatly appreciated.0 -
I seem to recall, back in about 1978, using some sort of 'slide bar' which you screwed to the outer threads of the shaft. Then you slid a weight outwards to free the shaft (this is after you removed the bearing retainer, of course -- and be sure to replace it with the exact number of shims as before.
One thing to watch: the axle key is very, very sharp. Slide it out of the spline before grabbing the outer end of the shaft to pull it, or you may get a nasty cut on your hand!
I would think you could just yank the axle out a few inches, enough to fully expose the bearing, and then lube the bearing right then and there. No need to slide it off the shaft (it may be press-fit). But DO cover the brake parts so you don't get grease on them, while doing this.
PS-- If you DO slide the shaft all the way out, inspect the inner end of it for the length that the thrust button protrudes. I think it needs to stick out of the axle by roughly 1/8" but maybe someone will jump in here. This button keeps the axle from moving inward and when worn, it will allow 'play' in the axle. One of mine was worn to the point that -- when I rounded a curve -- the axle would move inward (taking the whole brake drum and wheel with it) to the extend that the drum's rivets hit the wheel cylinders, causing a mysterious click-click-click noise from the rear end. No great damage was done (except that they notched the wheel cylinders) but it sure provided a lot of head-scratching for a number of years, until I replaced the axle shaft with a new one!0 -
Jon, that's great info. I will look into that type of puller and be careful as you described. Many thanks for your input. I have several projects on this car to get it ready for the road, but it's getting close. Car has been in storage many years. Thanks!!0
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The outer race comes out with the axle. Pull the axle all the way out and clean the bearing good then hand pack it with a good wheel bearing grease. Dont try to remove it from the axle. The grease fitting thread is 1/8 pipe thread. The outer race should not turn in the houseing. Install new grease seals when going back together.0
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