A day with my Hudson...

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Guys,

I took 1/2 the day off and got the 50 Pacemaker ready for racing season today. Took her out and drove the Shi-didas out of her to the tune of 42

miles. I had more fun and got more thumbs up and waves today than ever

when venturing out in her.

It was a overcast day but the temps were in the upper 70's which made

some perfect cruzin weather here in Indy. I could have not picked a better

day to play hookie from work! Talk about having some fun.

I still have to go back and richen up the carburetor 1 jet size to cool her

down some as she cruises at 210 degrees. Its been a problem getting

her to run around 190 degrees but the bigger fan and shroud has gotten

me closer. If I stop at a light for a few minutes the temp drops from 210

down to 195 but goes right back up to 210 once I run around 40 mph or

higher. A little fuel should cool her down.

I did go back and unhook the vacuum advance and set the total timing

at 25 degrees and its all in by 2400 RPM. Both unhooking the vacuum

advance and lowering the initial did drop the temp from 215 and above

down to 210 so it was a step in the right direction.

Also I picked up a bottle of water wetter from Redline Racing to help the

1/2 water & antifreeze cool the engine down better. Usually I have seen

a 10 degree drop from this alone I hope to see that here.

Bottom line is its at least 95% right at this time and its going to be one

to beat at the Hudson Drag Race at Muncie during the Nationals.

You guys better get ready! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Got to go cruiz'n,

PaceRacer50

rambos_ride · March 2007

Sounds like a lot of fun - I just sanded on parts today

210 isn't all that bad...are you basing this on a gauge or manual reading with a thermometer?

What about the pressure in the cooling system - what's that supposed to be anyone know?

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Dan,

that is 210 on the manual gauge in the back left side of the cylinder head.

I'm running a 7lb cap with the orginal but recored radiator.

I'm starting to wonder how much compression I have with the Clifford

head.

later,

PaceRacer50

[Deleted User] · March 2007

You are having entirely too much fun!

I'm jealous.

Did you get your bobble worked out? Inform me about your distributor findings. Did you disable the vacuum advance completely?

Mark

[Deleted User] · March 2007

I'll probably change oil in my '41--I'm not a smoking man but I may bring a cigar and take a few puffs on it while I wait for you at the other end of the track

Randy

rambos_ride · March 2007

Would the higher compression make it run hotter - or maybe oversized pistons and lower clearances to the water passages?

I'd be curious to know what the flow rate of the water being circulated through the system - I think those old radiators should be plenty big enough to keep it cool or were Hudsons known to run warm?

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Mark,

I removed the vacuum advance line from the unit to the carburator.

I also removed the spring from the advance unit and made a spacer

to eliminate the unit from moving at all.

The initial advance is now set to 8 degrees btc with total right at 25

with the mechanical all in. Seams to work good but if I go from idle to

wot I still get a little hesitation. Its not noticable any other time. As

a matter of fact it drives excellent.

I did rase the primary jets from .092 to .098 today and went for an

extended drive. The temp is still running at 210 and on extended

cruises above 55mph it will creep up to 215 but did not go above that.

At the stop it would drop down to under 210 while idling.

The water wetter did help some as it stayed at 210 for about 20 miles

before it started to creep above this. Now I believe that a modern

aluminum radiator would help out quite a bit.

I did put over 35 miles on her today and really have had a ball. Even

when hot the driveability does not degrade. The thorttle response has

remained excellent along with the power being there when needed.

I am hoping I can take her out again tomorrow night for 20+ miles as

I am loving this right now!

And yea Randy I hear you... on a heads-up race you would be waiting

on all of us! Lets see how the bracket-race goes where you have to

catch the slower guys.

Thanks guys for the input,

PaceRacer50

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Well, a lot of fellas are getting the itch to drag their hudsons. Seems like I get one or two calls a week concerning race motors or street-race combinations. I'm looking forward to the competition and thanks for arranging the event. I hope there is a good turnout with slow and fast cars. Lets have fun.

Randy

[Deleted User] · March 2007

I'm really looking forward to this. Whether I have something worthy of note involved remains to be seen.

I'm really looking forward to meeting other Hudson speed fanatics, both old and new. Perhaps this can evolve into a "Hudson Nationals" of sorts. I've been getting an increase of e-mails lately on Hudson speed topics that are not related to the Muncie opportunity, there are alot of folks discovering the Hudson engine right now for some reason.

I point them in Randy's direction and the HET.

Mark

super651 · March 2007

Paceracer, We did some testing on a 308 cooling system last year in the HOT DESERT and Cool Mountains and one of the improvements we did was to rum the cyl. head-top-rear heater hose down to a large trans-cooler ( such as used on the 1970s Lincoln Cars and back into the side of the water pump ( the heater loop) Temp went down 10 with just this mod.

The cyl. head temp is 5-10 hotter than the cyl. block. ( 308 C.I. Head)

Also the Clifford Head holds LESS cooling than a Iron Hudson Head,we did have that info as well but cant find it as yet.

Look at Kens web site for more Cooling Tips.

Hope this is of help. Rudy

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Rudy,

thanks for the tip. Right now I am running the heater hose from the water

pump to the front of the clifford intake water inlet port, then out the back

of the intake to the rear cylinder head heater hose port.

I do not have the heater core in the car right now. If I add it in it should

help cool the car down some more but I don't want the extra heat in the

interior.

I really think that while my radiator is good its 57 years old. The guy that

cleaned it and checked out said it was in excellent condition. However they

have made quite a lot of progress in the last 50 years. I still am thinking

that an aluminum modern design radiator is the ticket...

later,

PaceRacer50

hudsonguy · March 2007

PaceRacer50 wrote:

Rudy,

thanks for the tip. Right now I am running the heater hose from the water

pump to the front of the clifford intake water inlet port, then out the back

of the intake to the rear cylinder head heater hose port.

I do not have the heater core in the car right now. If I add it in it should

help cool the car down some more but I don't want the extra heat in the

interior.

I really think that while my radiator is good its 57 years old. The guy that

cleaned it and checked out said it was in excellent condition. However they

have made quite a lot of progress in the last 50 years. I still am thinking

that an aluminum modern design radiator is the ticket...

later,

PaceRacer50

I vouch for the aluminum radiator. It's working extremely well for me. It didn't really cost any more than a recore on the original, either. I can drive across Nevada in 105 degree heat with the AC on, and the motor never gets above 190 degrees! Click here and scroll down to the bottom of the page to see it.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Products/pics_of_prc_radiators/dougseals.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Products/PRC_Radiator_Gallery/&h=156&w=200&sz=13&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=uXSCk9dvasmFQM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddoug%2Bseals%2Bhudson%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-23,GGLD:en%26sa%3DG

super651 · March 2007

Hudson Guy, would you post pics. of the Alum-Rad installed in The Hudson ?

Thanks for the help to all of us. Rudy

hudsonguy · March 2007

super651 wrote:

Hudson Guy, would you post pics. of the Alum-Rad installed in The Hudson ?

Thanks for the help to all of us. Rudy

Rudy,

I'd love to, but posting pictures on this forum seems to be one of the most difficult things I seem to encounter. Maybe someone will help me out with this.

I bought the radiator (per the previous link), and couldn't be happier with it. It's absolute top quality, and it keeps my Hudson cool as a cucumber. Supposedly the same core design that's currently used in Nascar. I sent them a drawing of the original and they built this accordingly. A couple of slight differences you'll probably notice; their core is slightly narrower, so the side brackets are a little wider to make up the difference. Also, when they built the top tank, they didn't put in the front 'overhang' that Hudson radiators had. It cost a smidgen over $500, including shipping, and only took a few weeks to get.

It works so well that when I take it to summer car shows which are always during the hottest months, I can fill the car with overheated friends, crank the A/C, and putter around at little more than idle speed for hours through the crowds, and it never even comes close to getting hot. Of course, during those extremes, I'll have the electric fan on to keep the airflow up.

Hudsonly,

Doug

rambos_ride · March 2007

super651 wrote:

Hudson Guy, would you post pics. of the Alum-Rad installed in The Hudson ?
Thanks for the help to all of us. Rudy

This was the only picture on the link provided...

Doug Seals '49 Hudson

super651 · March 2007

Thanks Dan for the pics. They will be of help to another Hudson owner out here. Rudy

TwinH · March 2007

Here's my experience with cooling. 308,clifford head(shaved less than.010,

at least since I've had it), 175 psi cranking compession, late twin H(no carb heat),clifford header,rodded out stock radiator,no heater hoses at all,stock

fan, 175*late model thermostat, 7 lb. cap. Last summer,Tulsa to Joplin in

temps over 100* ran about 180* at speed and inched up to 210* sitting.

I really don't consider it to be a problem. Yes,I'd like it to run a little cooler

wwhile sitting but it actually starts to vapor lock a little first so thats my cue

to put it in the wind.

The kidd49 from so fl has an aluminum rad in his and watches the temp drop

everytime the thermostat opens.:)

I'll jusst ssneak up on it till I can keep it under 200* always.

Whats the nrmal range for cranking compression on a 308?

[Deleted User] · March 2007

Well I do like the aluminum radiator in the pictures. I do believe that I need to invest in one.

Mine will set and idle at the stop lights all day long right at 190 degrees.

Bumper to bumper slow speed traffic is no problem at all which is the total

opposite of every other hot rod I have ever built. Its the long cruised

that bring the temps up to 210 and higher.

Once I stop again for a minute or two it will drop right down to the 190

mark. My gut feeling is that its ok like this but every little bit helps out in

the cooling department. Besides I have tried all the other little fixes and

they have helped some but not gotten me exactly where I want to be. Its

close but not quite there yet.

This afternoon after work (3:30pm for me!) was one of the nicest days I

can remenber in a long time. Sunny, about 80 degrees outside. Basically

perfect cruiz'n weather so the Hudson got a work out.

I tried to get it to overheat but it never got over 215 the entire time. No

collent loss at all. No hot stumble or carburetor problems what so ever.

I ended up and put 36 miles on it and enjoyed every minute of it.

Tomorrow is the Southern Indiana Spring Crank-Up meet down at

Doug Wildrick's new place and if the weather is cooperative its going to

make the trip.

thanks for all the input guys,

PaceRacer50

rambos_ride · March 2007

Idles at 190...but driving long distances heats up...do you have push bars or something else on the front that might be disrupting the air flow? I mean you'd think driving at speed would keep enough air pushing through the rad though...did Hudsons come with fan shrouds?

Have you tried pulling the thermostat completely and running it? I'm curious if there's something wrong with the one you have - It wouldn't be the first time I've had problems with a thermostat misbehaving...old or new...

Maybe at speed the fan is flattening out (blades could be fatigued?) too much and not pulling enough air through the rad?

Just thinking outloud I don't know anything about Hudsons only Chevys and Jeeps!

ADDENDUM: BTW I thought of another thing...once everything is warm is there a rad hose, heater hose, or bypass hose that could be softening up and partially collapsing and cutting flow?

Unknown · March 2007

paceracer, don't pull your thermostat and drive the car. You will only experience more problems, the water pump will cavitate and cause overheating and your car will throw the coolant out. On these cars the thermostat is necessary to keep the water pump from moving the coolant too fast.

rambos_ride · March 2007

Jimalberta wrote:

paceracer, don't pull your thermostat and drive the car. You will only experience more problems, the water pump will cavitate and cause overheating and your car will throw the coolant out. On these cars the thermostat is necessary to keep the water pump from moving the coolant too fast.

Interesting...of course I didn't mean drive it too far - just see if it behaves different...I had one stick on me before and I had to pull the it out and drive home without (I was driving my 4speed Jeep with 1 arm in a sling - long story)

A safe alternative if you have any question as to the correct temp it opens would be to take the stat out and put it in a pot of water on the stove and bring to temp with an themometer and see that it works correctly.

I don't know Hudsons - again just thinking of things "outside the box"

[Deleted User] · April 2007

sorry to take so long getting back in touch. I have put 80+ miles on the Pacemaker in the last two days. it was raining yesterday morning so I did not drive her to the Southern Indiana Crank-Up meet at Dougs. However I did get her out once the sun came out late in the after.

Yes I have replace the thermostate with a 160 degree one. No problem there as you can watch the gauge go up to 160 within a couple of miles. Once its opens it takes it quite a while to slowly creep up from there. Had a 180 in there orginally and it acted the same only opened at 180 degrees instead of 160. The autometer gauge has been very helpful watching this.

The fan is a 16" cruved blade "S" type with 2600+ cfm of movement along with a aluminum fan shroud between the grille and the radiator. It was a nice fit but I could not use the orginal latch assembly as the top of the fan sets there. Had to install hood pins but on a hot rod that's ok with me. Also the hood has rust in the front above the grille bars. This fan assembly had dramaticlly changed the tempeature range of the engine over the two smaller puller fans I was using behind the radiator before.

Today I took the Pacemaker to Indianapolis RaceWay Park but did not run her. Played pit crew for my best friend and his 69 Mustang 428SCJ drag pack car. Got down to 12 cars before I had to leave for home. It was a 30 mile trip one way for me and the car never got over 210 the whole way.

When I arrived the temp was right at 210 but after cruizn around at low speed trying to find where Mike and the Stang were parked it dropped all the way to 160 and stayed there. I pushed her hard coming home and it never would go over 210.

I am starting to think that its totally operating normally. Still think a nice aluminum radiator would drop the temp about 20 degrees. For now I am going to leave her alone and enjoy the ride!

Got tell you guys it was KILLING me to be at the dragstrip and NOT running her. The whole day people were asking me why it wasn't on the track.

Next week its going to get flogged!

later,

PaceRacer50

mars55 · April 2007

Here is quote you might find helpfull.

"One last thing to check on an overheating Hudson... IGNITION TIMING!!! These things will run hot when the timing is just a few degrees advanced OR retarded".

-Hudson308

A day with my Hudson...

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