Who has experience building early straight 8 engines?
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I am looking for help in getting the eight built for my 42 Commodore coupe. Has anyone here done any performance modifications to one of the early eights? I am eager to learn what's been done successfully with this engine that won't leave me, the wife:eek: , and my little guy on the side of a highway somewhere. Plan on driving the coupe 2000 miles a year, plus or minus.
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contact Ivan Zaremba - altho famous for his Hornet racing coupe he's done some great work on the 8 cyl. Railton he owns inc. high performance cams, special head (thicker), exh. manifolds, carburetion, and he competes with it in historic races.
You might want to consider joining the Hudson 8 group on Yahoo; he belongs to it as do nearly 200 others interested in the 8s.0 -
I think that if you simply have it rebuilt to factory standards by someone who knows their Hudson Eights, you should have no trouble....especially if you have, or can obtain, an overdrive transmission. There may be a 'tweak' or two that helps, here and there, but in general these cars (when new) were driven fast, and far, with few problems.
But again, you would want to have someone work on it who knew Hudsons. Your average guy who works on late model cars is not going to really know what he's doing. Perhaps if you could state your general vicinity, someone could offer you a name or two, of an outstanding Hudson mechanic in your area.0 -
Jon B,
I live just outside of Nashville, TN. Don't mind going stocker but would like to do something to the engine that will make it unique without destroying the piece of history that it is. Is that vague enough? Seriously, it's the engine that makes this particular car unique besides it being a 42 model. But, a little extra something like maybe an early McCullough centrifugal supercharger or dual carb set up just might be the ticket. I'm exploring options at this point.0 -
edmunds made a finned head, and 2 carb set-up. If I ever found the items, I would really consider building an early (stepdown) 8.0
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hudsonkid wrote:edmunds made a finned head, and 2 carb set-up. If I ever found the items, I would really consider building an early (stepdown) 8.
:eek: Does anybody actually own any of these items:eek: ?0 -
VERY VERY seldom have they become available. Before you get too wound up on modifying it remember it is a 100% splasher. and that said it will have plenty of poop as a stocker to get you down the road real nice. Find yourself an overdrive. I run 70/75 real easily in my car, but it has a 3.07 rear.0
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I believe Kelly Hinegardner had some sort of Edmunds thing in one of his '38 engines. He would be happy to talk to you about it...sadly, he's no longer with us.0
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Jon B,
Saw your response and would like to take you up on your offer of a couple of names of Hudson knowledgeable mechanics in the area. I am in Mountain Home, AR and have not found anyone that has knowledge of any Hudsons, let alone the straight 8. If you know of any mechanics in my general area, I sure would appreciate it!!!!!
I can confirm that the Hudson 8 with 3spd w/OD does move down the road nicely and can maintain 70 to 75 for hours on end. Took my 49 Commodore with the straight 8 and 3spd w/OD to Little Rock for the Arkansas HET Meeting last year. Maintained a 65 to 70 mph rate and had no problems, also got what I thought was excellent gas mileage ( around 26 mpg ).
BST RGDS
GARY ( happychris )0 -
happychris wrote:Jon B,
Saw your response and would like to take you up on your offer of a couple of names of Hudson knowledgeable mechanics in the area. I am in Mountain Home, AR and have not found anyone that has knowledge of any Hudsons, let alone the straight 8. If you know of any mechanics in my general area, I sure would appreciate it!!!!!
I can confirm that the Hudson 8 with 3spd w/OD does move down the road nicely and can maintain 70 to 75 for hours on end. Took my 49 Commodore with the straight 8 and 3spd w/OD to Little Rock for the Arkansas HET Meeting last year. Maintained a 65 to 70 mph rate and had no problems, also got what I thought was excellent gas mileage ( around 26 mpg ).
BST RGDS
GARY ( happychris )
Yeah, but will I be able to do donuts in the Walmart parking lot late at night? Just kiddin:D , but I am mostly wanting to make an already unique engine/car even more unique. Want to learn what some of you guys have done to modify these engines? I worry that if I start modifiying internals, then I'm risking reliability. Stock with dress up parts and pieces, maybe unique induction and exhaust systems.0 -
They are expensive to rebuild, but long-lasting when done right. Remember the bearings are all babbit - mains are bronze-backed shells, and rods are babbited, no replaceable shells. There is an aprocyphal story about an experimental 8 that was developed around the time of the Hornet being introduced, which had 5" stroke and pressure oiling, which ostensibly would have mad ethe Hornet run away and hide, but of course straight 8's were obsolescent by then so it never got past the experimental stage. Apparently one of the engineeering staff wanted to smugggle the crank out of the engineering facility, so lowered it down on a rope, but forgot that it went past the management floor, and was spotted and scuppered. A high compression head, and exhaust headers, plus a bit of tweaking to the cam would probably be the best mods to do. There is not a lot you can do with the cam due to the design of the cam followers, without inducing quite a bit of noise. Good luck,
Geoff.0 -
Bill Coleman in Baltimore, MD did my '46 eight. He had my mains and rods rebabited and bored. He is one of the few that I know that has a boring bar long enough to do the mains correctly. He also straightened out my crank as well. He sent all of the drivetrain parts to House of Balance in Baltimore to be balanced as well. I was able to get a late (51/52) grind cam for it from Mike Gadjek.
To top it off I have an aluminum head on it.
It really scoots....just ask Lew Mendenhall!
Todd Harrington
Winchester, VA0 -
hudsonite wrote:Bill Coleman in Baltimore, MD did my '46 eight. He had my mains and rods rebabited and bored. He is one of the few that I know that has a boring bar long enough to do the mains correctly. He also straightened out my crank as well. He sent all of the drivetrain parts to House of Balance in Baltimore to be balanced as well. I was able to get a late (51/52) grind cam for it from Mike Gadjek.
To top it off I have an aluminum head on it.
It really scoots....just ask Lew Mendenhall!
Todd Harrington
Winchester, VA
is this your car?
I thought this was an 8, and if memory serves correct, it was whisper quiet.
Maybe someone on here knows?0 -
Yepper...thats mine. '46 Super Eight
Todd0 -
that has got to be one of the smoothest running engines I ever hear. Also, I would put Lew's convertible with that as well. I'm not an 8 fanatic, but after hearing these two cars, I thought about building an 8, just to be different. I mean, there are tons of commodore 8 emblems out there!0
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You should check with Hedly Bennet of London, Ontario. He knows how to make a stock eight run!
Jerry
53jetman0 -
Todd - I assume that is the one Everett Hudson in Mass. once had. If so, he got it from my buddy at the National Meet in Dallas who had driven it there from L. A. area. I 1st saw it at least 30 years ago in Palm Springs as a Super 8 coupe so rare - it was a very clean rust-free car - you're most lucky to have acquired it.0
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both Ivan & my buddy in Escondido, Calif., Buzz Stahl, have some of the finned alum. Edmunds heads & dual intake manifolds. One of the ROC members had some special thick heads made but using the 2 piece arrangement as used on the '30 thru '33 Hudsons - I believe both Ivan & Buzz bought a pr. of those too.
Both have Railtons which they have & or do race in vintage racing. Buzz' '34 Railton has a '40 o.d. unit I provided him & helped him install (only a '40 o.d. can be used in the early chassis without cutting the frame) & it loafs at 70 mph.
The factory also made alum. heads for 8's - I have a practically new one I may bring to Auburn.0 -
as an addendum, Buzz, a retired aircraft mechanic, does rebuild engines (he did the one in my '33 T8) but has such a high reputation, can't keep up with the local (so. Calif.) demand so only does them on occasion. You could call & ask him if he'd do one for you (he's not online, but in Roster).
He & Ivan doing a "joint project" in building a '49 brougham to try & capture the class records at Bonneville which is keeping him quit busy right now.0 -
Rarerodder wrote:Jon B,
I live just outside of Nashville, TN. Don't mind going stocker but would like to do something to the engine that will make it unique without destroying the piece of history that it is. Is that vague enough? Seriously, it's the engine that makes this particular car unique besides it being a 42 model. But, a little extra something like maybe an early McCullough centrifugal supercharger or dual carb set up just might be the ticket. I'm exploring options at this point.
Where around Nashville are you?
You speaketh good language and I like your concept.
McCulloch on the splasher rods would be certain death in my opinion. However, there is a gentleman somewhere near Cottontown in Sumner Co. that specializes in pressure oiling A Model Ford engines. I only recently learned of this person through an A Model guru who lives near here, my eyes popped out of my head looking at some this fella's work.
I filed that possibility away in my noggin as something to look into further should the chance to push a Hudson 8 ever arise. Should a good pressure system be concocted for the 8, you could do whatever you wanted induction wise.
I think you need to explore this avenue before I do.
I've always loved the look of the Hudson 8 much more than the 6.
There is also a '51 Commodore 8 around here with a dual range Hydramatic transmission that can be had for parts, fairly cheap I'd guess.
I'll try and find the address contact info for the splasher converting engine specialist at Cottontown. He may be your neighbor for all I know.
Mark0 -
Hi Pete,
Yes this is same one. I remember you giving me the story some years back when I first aquired the car. I do feel lucky to own this fine and very rare car. I am now in the process of putting the Drivemaster back on the car. Its all restored and and ready to go. This car originally not only had Drivemaster but OD as well.
Pete, I just picked up a spare aluminum 8-cyl head just in the last few weeks so I am all set. But I know someone here who may be looking for one. Is it an early or late (stepdown) head? Please PM me off-line with the details
Hope all is well with you!!
Todd0 -
Todd - it's for the stepdown 8.0
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Here was a really good thread on a similiar topic not long ago.
Searching on this forum is getting really hard due to the volume of us Hudnut's contributions. We need an archive system of good technical posts.
'37 Terraplane 8 thread:
http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4829&highlight=terraplane+8+head
I get kinda excited when folks start talkin' about souped up 8's.
Mark0 -
Fred Lorenz In Ohio Had His Step/down 8 Cyl Fitted With Full Oil Presure I'm Not Sure Just How But I Know He Had It Done I Ould Contact Him He's In The Het Roster0
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`Hudsonator wrote:Where around Nashville are you?
You speaketh good language and I like your concept.
McCulloch on the splasher rods would be certain death in my opinion. However, there is a gentleman somewhere near Cottontown in Sumner Co. that specializes in pressure oiling A Model Ford engines. I only recently learned of this person through an A Model guru who lives near here, my eyes popped out of my head looking at some this fella's work.
I filed that possibility away in my noggin as something to look into further should the chance to push a Hudson 8 ever arise. Should a good pressure system be concocted for the 8, you could do whatever you wanted induction wise.
I think you need to explore this avenue before I do.
I've always loved the look of the Hudson 8 much more than the 6.
There is also a '51 Commodore 8 around here with a dual range Hydramatic transmission that can be had for parts, fairly cheap I'd guess.
I'll try and find the address contact info for the splasher converting engine specialist at Cottontown. He may be your neighbor for all I know.
Mark
Hi Mark,
I'm just to the west in Kingston Springs (between Bellevue and Dickson). How about yourself? Thanks for the info and future info:) on the pressure oiling guy. Hey go buy that 51 with eight and we'll do it together! I love 51's probably my favorite stepdown. 52's and 53's are high on my list too! What was up with our beloved Hudson engineers back in the day settling for the splasher systems. Not like pressure oilers weren't already available. I've got a 1930 Oakland V-8 engine (future project) that is pressurized oiler. I know, it was probably a cost issue.
Let me know where you're hanging out, the wife and I try to hit as many shows and cruises as possible in our area. I'm sure we're rubbin' elbows and don't know it!
Rick0 -
I live in Red Boiling Springs. About as far east of Nashville as you are west. One of the biggest AACA car shows in the region takes place in our sleepy little town, weekend after Labor Day.
I'm kinda hedging my cruises etc. until after the Hudson National and the big DRAG RACE! Woo Hooo.
Late summer I intend to make some of the area cruise-ins etc.
Be sure and schedule the Redneck Rumble in Lebanon for the first weekend in October.
I'd sure like to see your project up close. The '51 Commodore is good for mechanicals only. But has that late model 8 with dual range hydro.
Mark0 -
Stuart Baits was the splasher evangelist at Hudson. He did not believe pressure oiling was necessary on a Hudson engine. He fought until the bitter end for splash oiling. When Hudson was readying the new six's Baits still put in his two bits for splash oiling stating that pressure oiling was unecessary in a long stroke low reving engine. Luckily the engine team over ruled him. Baits used to be the Head of engineering and personally helped design the splasher oiling in the Hudson engines and really its a work of art it does the job beautifully and lots of those splashers set amazing endurance records so they must have done something right.0
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Ivan has a pressure oiling system fitted to the front of his Railton's engine, adapted from a British engine of some sort. He needed it as when racing, if you turn too hard too fast too long the rods can oil starve.
He too, as I recall, experimented with a special cams for the 8s (I believe Buzz bought one - there's an ROC member [met him but can't remember his name] who's done a lot of research & testing in conjunction with Ivan & Buzz. They've come up with a helluva cam as I recall & that along with headers, multiple carbs, "thick" high compression head(s) have really got some h.p. coming out of the 8's now. ROC is into competing their Railtons so big on this stuff.0 -
This thread is right down my alley. One of the cars I'm considering buying is a 1947-8 and I am somewhat concerned about its engine holding up. I drove Hudsons as a teenager but they all had Twin-H 308's I bought from Warshawsky's that the Old Man and I installed in whatever I was driving at the time. These engines were indestructible or at least I thought so.
Is the 8-cylinder engine in the '47 the same one as in the 1949 mentioned above. The car I'm considering has overdrive and a DriveMaster that works. Am I going to be able to tool down the freeway at 70-75 relatively worry-free?0 -
Jon B wrote:I think that if you simply have it rebuilt to factory standards by someone who knows their Hudson Eights, you should have no trouble....especially if you have, or can obtain, an overdrive transmission. There may be a 'tweak' or two that helps, here and there, but in general these cars (when new) were driven fast, and far, with few problems.
But again, you would want to have someone work on it who knew Hudsons. Your average guy who works on late model cars is not going to really know what he's doing. Perhaps if you could state your general vicinity, someone could offer you a name or two, of an outstanding Hudson mechanic in your area.
Like so many of the threads here a question is posed then we take off in 30 different directions and tangents without ever addressing the Original Question...
I believe the ORIGINAL QUESTION was WHO in the CLUB is doing engine rebuilds and where are they located.. I know from experience that without spending countless hours researching it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to track doun names of reliable flat head mechanics.
Would love to see a list of names and contact info SPECIFICALLY talking about these people...
THANKS
TOM0 -
One of the cars I'm considering buying is a 1947-8 and I am somewhat concerned about its engine holding up. I drove Hudsons as a teenager but they all had Twin-H 308's I bought from Warshawsky's that the Old Man and I installed in whatever I was driving at the time. These engines were indestructible or at least I thought so.
The car I'm considering has overdrive and a DriveMaster that works. Am I going to be able to tool down the freeway at 70-75 relatively worry-free?0
This discussion has been closed.
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