Exhaust Manifold
54Hollywood
Senior Contributor
The exhaust manifold on our '54 Hornet Hollywood has developed cracks in the usual areas. Assuming that JB Weld is only a band-aid, the bigger issue concerns the ultimate replacement of the manifold. With that in mind, I'm thinking about possibly going with headers. For those of you who have done this, what are the negatives? Obviously headers don't have a manifold damper, so should that be a major concern? I'd appreciate learning the pros and cons about making this change. Thanks.
Hudsonly,
Tim in WI
Hudsonly,
Tim in WI
0
Comments
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I think these can be brazzed (spelling...) but honestly, someone should have one for you. However, headders might be a worthwhile gain.0
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I just spent a couple evnings with a friend who welded my cracked manifolds to perfection. They are now much stronger than the originals, because he built up the areas a bit where they were quite thin, and prone to cracking, such as the valley in the top of the exhaust manifold in the two center ports. He then carefully re-shaped and sand-blasted the welds to make them dissapear, and blend in to the rest of the casting.
This is not a cheap project however, it takes a great deal of set-up, and some machining afterwards to true up all the faces and make sure there is no stress in the metal left anywhere.
The process requires an oven that enables you to get the whole unit red hot, and then open up the oven just enough to work on the unit while its still in there retaining as much heat as possible, by firstly grinding out all cracks to about 1/4 inch wide, and cut completely through, and then puddling in the special rod, using a special flux to make it bond, while melting it down with an acetylene torch. The process is not unlike leading was done in the old days on body work, and the results when done by a skilled professional are simply amazing!
Frequent heating to keep the unit very close to red hot is required as the welding proceeds, and when all is done, the whole unit is re-heated to red hot again, and then imbedded in powder to be left overnight to cool evenly, and very, very slowly.
If you paid the man fair and square for all the effort required to do this work, it'd cost more than a good used manifold, so that's the better option if you have a source for another.
Don't throw those cracked ones away though !! There's at least one Guy out there that can repair them to better than new condition. He can also do engine blocks, heads, etc., but again, the cost of labour these days prohibits doing this work unless you have an irreplaceable original you want restored to concours condition.
I'll be putting this manifold in my car tomorrow, and should have a couple pictures then. Its a thing of beauty !
silverone.0 -
Advantages: lots more h. p. Less weight.
Disadvantages: expense of rearranging your exh. pipe to fit up with headers & or running 2 pipes all the way back. Depending on their design, you will have to remove or perhaps loosen them to adjust the valves unless you are a contortionist or have hydraulic valves.0 -
A set of headers will give you another 7 to 8 horsepower at the back wheels without doing anything else to the engine.0
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i'm almost sure i have a exhaust manifold in my stuff to sell at the national meet i'm going to get there tomorrow (sunday the 22 nd) i'll be in the swap meet
hudsonly
paul0 -
If you go with headers,what happens with your automatic chokes? With a single carb,you can just put on a manual,but with Twin-H that would be a trick. There are other ways to cast iron weld. I had a crack in one of my 455 Olds hi-po manifolds. These are not easy to come by or cheap. Found a guy who used some special cast iron rod with an arc welder. Never had seen that before but he was done in under a half hour and charged me 25.00. That was about four years ago and if it has cracked again, I can't see it or hear it. Ain't technology grand?0
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464Saloon wrote:If you go with headers,what happens with your automatic chokes? With a single carb,you can just put on a manual,but with Twin-H that would be a trick. There are other ways to cast iron weld. I had a crack in one of my 455 Olds hi-po manifolds. These are not easy to come by or cheap. Found a guy who used some special cast iron rod with an arc welder. Never had seen that before but he was done in under a half hour and charged me 25.00. That was about four years ago and if it has cracked again, I can't see it or hear it. Ain't technology grand?
I ran choke tubes direct to the outside headers and used pipe strap to hold them in place. I did not drill or weld anything on headers. This worked fine for 15 years on a 51 Hornet in winter or summer. Headers are the easiest way to boost performance by about 15% without doing anything else to engine.0 -
I had someone weld my cast iron ex. manifolds.[they can weld cast iron now with special rod] I spotted them in ,[machining of course is a better job] but this six takes a gasket ,a thick one at that, so i'm sure spotting with some prusson blue would suffice. Came out real nice. Make sure you vee out the cracks real well. The welder that did these said it was the poorest quality cast iron he'd ever seen.0
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Welders are like doctors there are good ones and there are bad ones preparation is the key to a good job. some people are really talented and some just think they are it is an art.0
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Arc welding an old cast iron manifold is a bit of a lottery - you more often lose than win, in my experience. You still have to pre-heat the manifold, as cold welding will cause far too much stress around the weld area, leading to shrinkage and cracking as the weld cools. And the initial quality of the casting has a large bearing on it as well. I have welded flanges on the back of Essex exhaust manifolds, to eliminate the leaky and dangerous old threaded bung and packing, and some go on like glue, others won't take at all, as the cast iron seems very "powdery", and the weld just sits there in a blob, instead of melding in with the iron. The local engineering shop do some iron arc welding on heavy equipment, and they say that you really need a D.C. welder to make a good job with cast iron. So whichever way you go, make sure you use somebody who is an expert at it. We have a specialist iron welder here, and he uses the oven method and welding torch, which overall makes a supeior job to arc welding. Theres as another method using the metal spray process, which also jeeds pre-heating in an oven, and the iron powder is sprayed on with a special torch applicator.
Geoff.0 -
A friend of mine welded up my exhaust manifold this weekend using a torch and a powder that flowed into the flame from a bottle mounted on top of the torch. The stuff just flowed into the piece and made it whole again, amazing stuff, then he wrapped the manifold in insulation and let it cool over night, no cracks and no warpage, I broke the flange right at the butterfly and it is whole again.
Harry0 -
Harry Hill wrote:A friend of mine welded up my exhaust manifold this weekend using a torch and a powder that flowed into the flame from a bottle mounted on top of the torch. The stuff just flowed into the piece and made it whole again, amazing stuff, then he wrapped the manifold in insulation and let it cool over night, no cracks and no warpage, I broke the flange right at the butterfly and it is whole again.
Harry
This sounds similar to the process I watched a friend do on my own manifolds a week or so ago. However, he melted in a type of 3/8" square rod that looked like some sort of cast material itself, ( expensive stuff - 200 bucks for a pack of twenty about 14-15 inches long ), along with the flux that he kept dipping the rod into to keep the metals mixing and flowing. The flux looked like a reddish powder of some sort.
Maybe because he vee'd out the cracks before hand, right through to the other side, he needed the rod to replace the ground away metal, and to build up some weak and thin areas where he felt a little reinforcement might prevent future cracks.
He says you do not leave any of the old crack anywhere before welding, and he even drilled the ends of each crack as well, so that nowhere was there anything that could start the crack again, topside, or underneath. All new metal is thusly bonded to only only freshly ground edges.0 -
Thanks for all of your replys to my post. Great information! I too am hesitant about trying to weld a 50+ year old manifold successfully but I wanted to learn what the options are. Sounds like headers will eventually be the way to go. Thanks again.
Tim in WI.0 -
If you dont' want to weld your manifold, I think i have a couple of them here. Let me know and i will see what i have.
Paul0 -
Hoseman wrote:If you dont' want to weld your manifold, I think i have a couple of them here. Let me know and i will see what i have.
Paul
Paul,
Yes, I'm interested and I sent you a private message about it. Did you receive it? Thanks.
Tim in WI.0 -
Tim,
For what it's worth, I've got a set of the latest header offering from Clifford, and am extremely happy with them. They're a 'block hugger' style unlike the earlier Clifford headers that reached out past the sub-frame rail, and required cutting the inner fender for clearance. The advantages and disadvantages of headers in general are pretty well pointed out in the above post. The next time you see me driving and follow me into work (like you did a couple months ago), have me pop the hood so you can take a look.
Hudsonly,
Doug (gray/ivory '49)0
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