locked up 308

Unknown
Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
the 308 that was in my 52 coupe when i got it was rusted solid because the previous owner stripped it and left the head off, so i'm pretty sure its junk. i have another good motor for it but i would like to save this block becuse the numbers match with the car. someone told me to use rust remover to try to frre up the motor. im kind of skeptical but at this point ill try anything. what do you guys think? -john

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Don't fire up the motor. Avoid that. Soak the bores in oil and try moving turning the engine over by hand each day. May take a couple of weeks to get it free but don't be in a hurry. Just soak it with oil and let that do its job. When you get it free pull it down and have the bores machined.
  • Richie
    Richie Senior Contributor
    THEGREENHORNET wrote:
    the 308 that was in my 52 coupe when i got it was rusted solid because the previous owner stripped it and left the head off, so i'm pretty sure its junk. i have another good motor for it but i would like to save this block becuse the numbers match with the car. someone told me to use rust remover to try to frre up the motor. im kind of skeptical but at this point ill try anything. what do you guys think? -john



    Thegreenhornet, google rust removal with electricity, you will get several threads about electrolysis. A guy removed rust from a Pontiac 400 that looked to be junk, later was running it in his car. Richie.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    If all else fails, try putting brake fluid in the cylinders. I know it sounds crazy but brake fluid will eat rust, then work it a little every day, Be PATIENT.....
    Bob
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    i havent tried brake fluid yet but i have filled the pan and cylinders with marvels i dosent seem to have helped. i will try the brake fluid next.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    oil will not do it I use deisel fuel breaks up the rust, dsBILL ALBRIGHT
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    i just looked up the electrolysis method on google, it looks pretty neat. i think i will try it with something smaller and less important first. -john
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    get some evaporust and dump it in the cylinders since the head is off.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    we are forgetting that stuck valves will lock her up as well, make sure you get them moving as well.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    after using some good penitrating oil like PV Blaster for a while you will do as well to pull the crank shaft out and beat the pistons down, then hone the cylinders and try to beat the pistons back up or you can break the tops of the pistons out to start with. I honed my 308s cylinders and found a brazed up crack from the exhaust valve to the cylinder.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    stateline wrote:
    after using some good penitrating oil like PV Blaster for a while you will do as well to pull the crank shaft out and beat the pistons down, then hone the cylinders and try to beat the pistons back up or you can break the tops of the pistons out to start with. I honed my 308s cylinders and found a brazed up crack from the exhaust valve to the cylinder.



    stupid question, but did it run ok?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I allways used Deisel. it penetrates and lubes. LOADER UP. cylinders --intake.--crankcase {Fashion a tube or hose on the oil fill hole to bring it above top of block} go fishin a few days. PATEINCE, all that hammer does is make junk. You can tho, with a block of soft wood on top of pistons, Give it a few 'vibes' GENTLY, don't hit too hard, with a hammer couple times a day after it sits 2-3 days. Then go to the crankshaft to turn it. Done this with everything from lawn mowers to big deisels and worked every time.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    htrdhudson wrote:
    stupid question, but did it run ok?



    you said it ( stupid question , but did it run OK ) Id been putting PV Blaster in it for 2 months - got it to run past rings on one hole was all - I didnt want to twist off the crank damper bolt so I pulled the crank out and beat the pistons down in the bores and honed the cylinders. after I saw the damage I didnt bother doing any more .Ive torn down lots of badly stuck engines. the head has been off my Hornet sense 1960. if the engine wasnt so crusty and the damage could be seen I'll bet I could bought the car cheaper .
  • Hudsy Wudsy
    Hudsy Wudsy Senior Contributor
    Diesel fuel at first, later add some ATF. Don't get impatient and start hammering. Perhaps in time a little thumping will help.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I hate to say it, but it's good to know I'm not alone in the stuck 51 308 saga.. I got the engine a few weeks ago and I've tried ATF, Marvel, PV Blaster and Elbow Grease, and I still can't get that ol' girl to budge. It's mounted on the stand, and after looking things over, if I didn't know any better, I'd say it's stuck valves that are the culprit. I don't even have a manual, and Hudsons are a virtual mystery to me (although it seems pretty basic), still, not having worked on a flat head motor before, removing the valve springs looks to be a complete mystery.

    Carry on, I'll be watching this thread and trying some diesel next.

    Sam
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Sambone wrote:
    I hate to say it, but it's good to know I'm not alone in the stuck 51 308 saga.. I got the engine a few weeks ago and I've tried ATF, Marvel, PV Blaster and Elbow Grease, and I still can't get that ol' girl to budge. It's mounted on the stand, and after looking things over, if I didn't know any better, I'd say it's stuck valves that are the culprit. I don't even have a manual, and Hudsons are a virtual mystery to me (although it seems pretty basic), still, not having worked on a flat head motor before, removing the valve springs looks to be a complete mystery.

    Carry on, I'll be watching this thread and trying some diesel next.

    Sam



    You might pull the timing chain off next before trying to turn it .but it should wiggle if the pistons arent stuck and the valves are. theres alot of difference between a stuck engine and a rusted one . I soaked the number matching motor out of my Road Runner with everything mentioned above for 5 yrs. with no success , finally pulled out the crank , beat the piston down the bores ( used a 2x4 ) honed and cut ring ridge out and beat them out . the pistons werent any good anyway- ruined from water and rust. if they drive out very hard , the rods may be damaged from driving them out . even after the cylinders are honed they wont come out easy if there is much rust.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    WHOA!! I think maybe you better tell everyone how far you have this thing torn down,pan,heads,just what you have off of it before you do anything else. AND how badly is it rusted ?Is there any oil at all on inside parts? And how much of it your trying to salvage. Gonna rebuild or just get it running? Get everyone in step with you and you'll get better advice.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    37 terraplane#2, good point. i have the motor stripped down to the block and the only parts still on the block are all of the guts (pistons, rods, crank, valves......) i have mild rust inside the block too because the previous owner took off the fuel pump. so the inside hase been exposed for years. im mostly just concerned with the block. i wish i could save everything, but the block is most important. my next step is to take off the timing chain cover. as for your question about oil. between the motor and trans i think i drained about 5 gallons of fluid out of them!! so this tells me that somone else tried to soak this motor loose. -john
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    I'm going to assume your reply of concern is directed at the gentleman who started this thread, but not to hijack, and in case you mean me, heres my story.

    I pulled the engine out of 51 4 door hornet that had sat in a potato field for 40 years. Needless to say, the car is shot. But the hood was down for at least most of the time thankfully and someone removed the carb early on, that would explain the gobs of rusty goo in the intake and exhaust ports and why the valves are very corroded. The fuel pump was also off, which most likely allowed water inside the crankcase, at first I was very concerned because the dipstick was rusty, yet when I removed the oilpan, there was no rusty water ... or oil, just the typical sludge. Thankfully, all the internal parts (crank, cam, rods, oil pump) were liberally coated with said sludge. The cylinder walls are surprisingly smooth and rust free, which leads me to believe the majority of my current problem is in the valve area. I pulled the valve spring covers off and was greeted with a rusty goo packed right into the chamber.

    I'm very early on in the teardown process, and I have a friend who seems to know his way around old engines giving me some tips along the way. Just the other night we were discussing whether to completely rebuild or just patch her up. I intend to really push this motor, so a complete rebuild might be in my near future as funds allow. So that's MY story. I really need to get my hands on the shop manual before I go too far.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Sam. no I meant there was'nt any of us includeing me that knew how bad it was or what he intended to try to do. All of which determines how you go about seperateing the parts. Looks like he has to get it All apart to get it going in any shape. I think what I would do is forget about trying to turn it over, cut the ring groove out of the ones he can get at, remove the rod caps keeping track of where the shims are now just in case it turns out the crank/bearings are O.K. and the rods will be reused.. Do the soak thing maybe with 50/50 deisel/kerosene,it'll cut a bit better,Timeing chain off,knock out the ones he can ,{ Have some of the soak solution in the cyl with the bottom side up to soak and while trying to knock em ou t}that'll lighten the load, then try to turn crank so he can cut out the rest of the r-grooves and get all the p's out. Then soak valve spring area .Springs need to be tested after sitting in one spot a long time.Sometimes can be shimmed if not too far off. OK,remember the pateint thing, each engine exhibits it's own resistance according to condition as per Sam and his badlly rusted valve springs
  • Hudsy Wudsy
    Hudsy Wudsy Senior Contributor
    Guys, what would be the harm at this point in having the whole thing hot tanked? With the timing chain and sprockets off, the main and rods caps/inserts removed, what of any value would be etched beyond use? Off course the cam bearings, for sure, but they would be replaced eventually anyway. Would hot tanking do harm to the rods, pistons, cam, valves and tappets? I'm not suggesting that this is the thing to do, I'm genuinely asking what would be the harm?
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