EPA Regulations

Sarah Young
Sarah Young Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I just received the latest copy of Hemming's Classic Car and was reading an article about proposed federal regulations concerning autobody painting under the Clean Air Act. The author made it seem that this is the beginning of the end for old car restoration and that "unless you are certified, and have a $100,000 filtered paint booth, you won't be able to buy the necessary paints to restore old carts, trucks or motorcycles."



Here's a link to some frequently asked questions on it:

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/area/auto/autobody_refinishing_faq_03-02-2006.pdf



I understand there are definate concerns for those who paint their own cars and would love to be able to do my own restoration out of my own garage and realize that laws continue to make this more difficult, but on the other hand... If they put "certificate" courses in place for restorers to learn proper etiquette with air pollutants like paint, I would want to learn the best way to keep my health in tact along with new and improved painting methods and handling procedures.

Comments

  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    It sure paints a bad picture in my mind. I've been a do-it-myself body and paint guy for 40 years or more. The question I have is, Since the advent of the EPA and OSHA, the formulations of auto paints have gone from bad to worse. The old lacquers and enamels had some mildly dangerous fumes. Now we have all these carcinogens in them. We used to wear a cartridge type mask and were safe. Now we need forced filtered air and full body cover ..! Perhaps one of our more knowlegable forum folks can shed some light on the matter. Why are paints so much more dangerous? Is this just another one of governments "do good" ideas gone wrong?
  • Browniepetersen
    Browniepetersen Senior Contributor
    The old laquer paints and the old enamal paints were pigment type paints and once the medium that was used to carry the paint to the car flashed off the paint dried and did not give off extreme amounts of hazardous chemicals. Other than the carbon based solvent/medium that was used, and provided you had sufficient air circulation it was not too bad. In todays market not only do you have really bad mediums such as acitone, TCE and Mek. You also have a plastic media in the paint that needs to be converted to a liquid to spray. You suck this stuff down and it creates a plastic bottle in your lungs. Oh, and just for the record, other than the old laquer paints (pre 50's), most of the paints from the late 50's on were as bad as the paints today. The killer in the paints today is the polyurathane or plastic bases. The article you read was on the edge. I doubt we will see these regulations in our time--perhaps thirty years from now. However, chrome will be gone in the next five or six years. Kinda encourages one to get to work on that project and get it done?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    It's a matter of lawyers making the most of bogus lawsuits and less than honorable people who are willing to let anyone with deep pockets take the blame for their carelessness or bad luck or whatever else happens to them in their lives. It's juries that find in the favor of those slobs because they think insurance companies have deep pockets and it only hurts the insurance companies to pay out big settlements. Sure, if your careless and don't protect yourself you can be injured using anything. The answer is personal responsibility, if you aren't willing to take the chance don't do it. If you are willing to take the chance live with the results. If something is too dangerous for you to try send it to a lawyer.



    Harry
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Browniepetersen wrote:
    The old laquer paints and the old enamal paints were pigment type paints and once the medium that was used to carry the paint to the car flashed off the paint dried and did not give off extreme amounts of hazardous chemicals. Other than the carbon based solvent/medium that was used, and provided you had sufficient air circulation it was not too bad. In todays market not only do you have really bad mediums such as acitone, TCE and Mek. You also have a plastic media in the paint that needs to be converted to a liquid to spray. You suck this stuff down and it creates a plastic bottle in your lungs. Oh, and just for the record, other than the old laquer paints (pre 50's), most of the paints from the late 50's on were as bad as the paints today. The killer in the paints today is the polyurathane or plastic bases. The article you read was on the edge. I doubt we will see these regulations in our time--perhaps thirty years from now. However, chrome will be gone in the next five or six years. Kinda encourages one to get to work on that project and get it done?

    I read that article also and from the response of the EPA it is almost a done deal that by 2011 you will not be able to purchase automotive coatings unless you are certified.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    The gub'mint "saving Americans from themselves" again! The nanny state in action. And the EPA is accountable to no one.
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    I don't believe it will get to the point that you have to be licensed.

    This would effectlively kill a huge portion of business that these companies depend on to stay in business.

    Now "they" can (and have been) legislate more to keep it out of home garages/shops etc. And I can see both sides of that coin - but in the end buying and painting a car is no worse than any other project I might do on my own property.

    I gaurantee you I can go to Home Depot, Ace Hardware whatever and buy a large amount of paints and chemicals that are far more caustic than the automotive paints this legislation seems to target.

    At some point you have to consider housing density where you live and not do stupid things like use 2 stage urethane to paint your car in your gargage with a 20.00 Walmart fan blowing the fumes and overspray towards your neighbors house...or trying to run a bodyshop out of your garage...it's these kinds of actions that get people riled up in the first place!

    Run silent. Run Deep.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I used to buy mercury at the corner drug store, along with little vials of peppermint to make my own tooth picks. Later in life I built and ran an auto repair shop. I purchased R-15 for .60for a 12 oz. can. I never herd of a receyling machine....



    I work for a major air freight carrier that last summer crushed 2 767 jumbo freighters beacause less than 1 oz of Mercury was not recovered from a spill on one of the planes (never figgured out wich one so they both went) at 18 mil each this was considered an acceptable loss! The last cyl I purchased of r-12 cost me 1400.00, I am certified and own 6000.00 worth of equipment to spend 4 hrs on an ac job that used to take 10 min. Then the customer *****es up a storm about how i "ripped them off" I can never explain thayt if I were caught simply recharging the system I could be fines 750,000.00 and inprisoned for up to 10 years!



    nEVER SAY NEVER WITH THE epa, CAUSE BIG BROTHER IS TAKING CARE OF THE MASSES. iF THIS WERE TO HAPPEN YOU COULD GO 1/2 MI SOUTH OF BROWNSVILLE TX AND GET A PAINT JOB FOR 35.00



    hOOP
  • Jay_G
    Jay_G Expert Adviser
    I deal with EPA regs all day long and just to comment on a few points. The nasty chenicals in todays paints are just as nasty as yesterdays paints we just never knew it. As for the paint I am sure they are working on reformulations. You may not want to use it but given the size of the restoration market you can bet someone will come out with a restoration type of paint. Here in Southern California we have the strictest regs from our friends at the South Coast AQMD and we have very low VOC paints which are very expensive. I am sure they will still be around, granted it took a few years to get it right and they don't last as long, but...... Never fear someone will make a rattle can that will work. But the days of no booth may be numbered. You can always rent a booth and spray. In any event booths are better at dust control on the paint so look on the bright side you get a better job in a booth.



    Jay
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