Upgrading a Stepdown Ignition System

Unknown
edited November -1 in HUDSON
I'm considering upgrading my stock '49 262 point distributor system to a more modern electronic ignition set-up. I know an early AMC unit, with major shaft modifications will work. I've also heard that a Mopar slant six unit will work also. Does the Mopar unit require major shaft mod's as well? Also, what additional wiring/electronics are required? I assume there's at least a brain box somewhere.

One last question. Is access to a distributor machine an absolute necessity when putting together one of these Frankenstein units? The reason I ask is that those machines are all but extinct in the Southern WI area.

Thanks,

Doug
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Comments

  • You can use a Chrysler system from a slant 6 for ignition for the Hudson cars with either 232, 262 or 308 engines. A 6 volt point system is limited to around 18000 to 20000 volts available at the very best. Then there is the need of point and cam wear requiring constant service. The Chrysler system has 32000 to 35000 available which once mounted and timed will never need service for many years.

    Once you have the Hudson and Chrysler distributors on the workbench ,disassemble both units. You'll need to machine .025to .040 off the housing stub that goes into the engine block. The shaft assembly from the Hudson unit fits right in the new aluminum Chrysler housing. Add the pick-up unit and plate assembly followed by the reluctor onto the upper shaft. From there its just follow the Chrysler manual
    (any 76-early, 80's) and install the electronic control unit and ballast resistor . Set the reluctor air gap, time the engine and enjoy instant starting, better performance, on less gas.

    If you’re a purist and don’t want friends and neighbors to know you aren't 100& Hudson, just mount the control module and ballast resistor under the dash some where out of sight. This is the preferred place anyway because of a cooler air flow than is available if mounted under the hood. Few people will note as the distributor looks like the old one and the coil looks and place look alike. Fewer fellows yet will notice the two wires and plug connector from the distributor to the control module.
    Best units for this conversion are 76-84. A remanufactured unit costs less that $100.00 or you could get a junkyard unit for about half.

    I would also recommend upgrading your plug wires to acomodate the incerased voltage.

    Hope that this information helps.
  • Thanks for the details. I'll let you know how it goes. I hope to have the car running in the next 60 days or so.

    Thanks again, Doug
  • Well, I picked up a slant six distributor for a '75 Duster. It was only $60-70 including core. Like you said it looks like the housing needs to be chucked up in a lathe and some material removed from the stub diameter. Other than that it looks like all systems go. On to the next step. I recently picked up an old used distributor on ebay, which I'm going to tear apart for the shaft. That way I can keep my original distributor intact, just in case. Keep you posted.

    Doug
  • You have done exactly what I did by saving the original distributor and using another one for the conversion. I was at a swap meet last month and found a Hudson distributor for $8.00 and bought it just in case, so now I have plenty of extra distributors plus I just can't pass up a bargain. You'll love the way the car starts and runs after you do the switch. I may be crazy but I think that I picked up a litle extra horsepower too. Keep me posted.
  • This is probably a dumb question --- but are all you guys now running a twelve volt system, or can all these mods work with six volts? Reason I ask is its dang hard to hide that twelve volt battery, although I guess it could be done. I like to see the old style six volt under the hood when I gawk in there. Looks more authentic.
  • Yes, you do have to have a 12v system for this to work. You're right, the 12v battery does stand out, but personally I prefer reliability and driveability over originality.
  • I do agree with you that the 12 volt battery does destroy the originaliy look of the car (as does running an alternator) and I swore that I would never convert over to 12 volt. My car always started quickly and ran just fine on 6 volts. I had no plans to add air conditioning, am/fm or any other 12 volt accessories. The problem is, and was, how practical is it to keep on using a system that it is becomming more and more difficult to find parts for? If I burn out a sealed beam, I can now stop at any Wal-Mart, pick one up, install it in the parking lot and be on my way. I have my car to drive and enjoy and don't plan on entering it in the Pebble Beach Classic so if it is a bit less than original, I'll just have to deal with that, but I can keep it on the road with a lot less headaches. This is the same basic reason that I went to electronic ignition. Points are getting harder to find and quite costly when found. Bottom line is that I guess that I'm just cheap. I did put a "Hudson" battery decal on my 12 volt battery, but please don't ask me why. That's my two cents worth.
  • Cranecam.com sells conversion kits for 6 volt posative ground that fit right into your Hudson distributor (About $115. a few years ago. I did a couple of Hudsons and a Gray marine engine and they worked fine.
    Fred
  • I think I know the answer to this, but just making sure. In re-assembling the Chrysler distributor with the Hudson shaft in it, I would think I'd want to use the old original advance weights. They appear to be considerably smaller than the '75 Chrysler, which would probably mean it has a smaller advance curve which should be maintained. Is this right?

    Thanks, Doug
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    Has anyone ever had a bad experience switching to an electronic ignition system? Every time I mention switching to my mechanic buddies down here, they always advise against it.
    Jason
  • hudsonguy
    hudsonguy Senior Contributor
    Okay, I'll try again.

    I wanted to confirm that I should use the smaller advance weights from the Hudson distributor, rather than the larger ones from the Chrysler distributor. Is this right?

    Also, what does everyone use for an electronic control box?

    Thanks for the advice

    Doug
  • How about this for a simple conversion. Check out PerTromix.com. They make a conversion that replaces the points. You use your orginal distributer with the weights and everything including the cap and rotor. The only way you can tell is there are two wire not one out of the distributer. They have a 6v positive ground unit so no change to 12v. The product is called the Ignitor. No more points and easy to.

    Jay
  • Use the control box for the mopor ign. I can post the Car Quest parts # later and wireing diagram if you need it. BK.TN.
  • hudsonguy
    hudsonguy Senior Contributor
    BK, that would be great (Carquest P/N and wiring diag.)

    Thanks, Doug
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    Jay,
    I called Petronix (not Pertromix) out in CA and they tell me that they would have to custom make an Ignitor for a 48 Hudson since their product is built to be used on specific distributors and Hudson & Kaiser don't qualify. Do you know something that they don't know?
    Jason cool.gif
  • Your right on the spelling, I hit the m by mistake. I visited their shop in La Verne (because I live in La Verne) with the distributor from my 53. They said no problem the 6V positive should work. Did you give then the numbers off the distributor or did you ask about a Hudson retrofit. When I asked about Hudson they did not know what I was talking about. When I brought in the distributor it was a different story. I have not gotten one yet because the rebuilt engine is not in the car. I will within the next month once the tax refund comes in. I will post any problems.

    Jay
  • JasonNC
    JasonNC Expert Adviser
    I just mentioned Hudson & Kaiser and the lady shut down on me. If there is a distributor number for a non-orphan that will fit a Hudson or 54 Kaiser I sure would like to know. The extra juice would greatly improve the performance of the Kaiser and hopefully stop the 12 volt system from burning up the condensors for the Hudson.
  • Car Quest # for Distributor 30-3690 For control module #21007. Looking at module with post for wires at top the one in center top goes to + on coil. The one on left to - on coil. Bottom on right to the male plug on dist wire and the middle right to the female plug on dist wire. Use a 12v coil with built in restistor. Billy K. TN.
  • Use the Hudson advance weights.
  • Here are a few pics of a converted distributor
  • Dave,



    What parts do you have there? I don't recognize the distributor housing.



    Could you give us a recipe of what mechanical parts you have in that conversion.



    Mark
  • `Hudsonator wrote:
    Dave,



    What parts do you have there? I don't recognize the distributor housing.



    Could you give us a recipe of what mechanical parts you have in that conversion.



    Mark



    Mark,



    Both the Hudson and Chrysler distributors are remarkably similar. The shaft w/ advance weights & springs is out of a stepdown distributor. The housing, vacuum advance, reluctor wheel, pick up, etc is from a '76 Dodge Dart slant 6 electronic distributor A1 Cardone# 30-3690 ($43.95 w/ no core charge at Advance Auto Parts). Simply drive out the roll pins from each distributor, remove the wire snap ring that holds the points cam wheel to the top of the shaft, and swap the Hudson shaft/advance weights assy into the Chrysler housing. Both shafts are the same diameterand distance from advance weights plate to roll pin are very close, the Hudson advance weight pins mate right to the Chrysler plate. The housing is about .025" bigger in diameter where it goes into the Hudson block so it needs to be turned down or sanded. I did mine w/ some emery cloth in about 10 minutes. You then use a Chrysler ignition module, cap and rotor. Presto, elctronic ignition on your Hudson for about 100 bucks. I will post pics later when I get it installed.
  • Thanks Dave.



    I've been helping a friend who runs a slant six in his Valiant. I had never paid that much attention to the similarity between the two distributors.



    However, I do know that Pertronix makes a kit for them to be upgraded to "in-cap" 12 volt electronics.



    Interesting stuff, again - much thanks on the recipe.



    Mark
  • hudsonguy
    hudsonguy Senior Contributor
    Both distributors were (are) made by Auto-Lite, I believe, hence the similarities. Interesting reading back into this old thread, I sounded so naive then!



    The one hitch I ran into, is the quality of the cheap modern day replacement distributor. I actually returned a couple to the local parts house because of excessive run-out at the top of the shaft. I attributed it to cheap castings, bushings, etc.



    So to remedy that, I trolled on ebay for a NOS Chrysler distributor which I then converted. I was able to get it for about the same money. Maybe a little more. But the quality of the parts is so much better. Almost NO run-out, which just makes the car run that much better. Any run-out up there will alternately change your point gap from cylinder to cylinder as it spins. Talk about a moving target!



    Doug
  • `Hudsonator wrote:
    Thanks Dave.



    I've been helping a friend who runs a slant six in his Valiant. I had never paid that much attention to the similarity between the two distributors.



    However, I do know that Pertronix makes a kit for them to be upgraded to "in-cap" 12 volt electronics.



    Interesting stuff, again - much thanks on the recipe.



    Mark



    Anytime, Mark.
  • Dave:

    I stopped in at Advanced today to see what they had. The distributor listed 30-3690 showed a vacuum module on the side. $43.99 no core charge.



    The distributor listed as 30-3693 did not have the vacuum module on it. $50.99 with a $5.00 core charge.



    They also noted a statement : "Prices Subject to Change Without Notice."



    Prices may change daily or more often. Both of these are the Cardone distributors listed for 1980 Chrysler Cordoba 3.7L 225-L6 Carb-C

    I still want to do one of these, just dont have a spare distributor, yet. Thanks for the info, working on a plan. Thanks, Bob
  • TwinH
    TwinH Senior Contributor
    fred wrote:
    Cranecam.com sells conversion kits for 6 volt posative ground that fit right into your Hudson distributor (About $115. a few years ago. I did a couple of Hudsons and a Gray marine engine and they worked fine.

    Fred





    Crane Cams ignition has worked flawlessly for me for years now.PO did the

    swap and its a 12V Neg ground.



    Hudsonjan06004.jpg
  • bobdriveshudson wrote:
    Dave:

    I stopped in at Advanced today to see what they had. The distributor listed 30-3690 showed a vacuum module on the side. $43.99 no core charge.



    The distributor listed as 30-3693 did not have the vacuum module on it. $50.99 with a $5.00 core charge.



    They also noted a statement : "Prices Subject to Change Without Notice."



    Prices may change daily or more often. Both of these are the Cardone distributors listed for 1980 Chrysler Cordoba 3.7L 225-L6 Carb-C

    I still want to do one of these, just dont have a spare distributor, yet. Thanks for the info, working on a plan. Thanks, Bob



    Bob,



    I guess the different models/years slant 6 came with or without vacuum advance. The 30-3690 w/ vacuum is the one you want.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    TwinH wrote:
    Crane Cams ignition has worked flawlessly for me for years now.PO did the

    swap and its a 12V Neg ground.



    Hudsonjan06004.jpg



    Off topic, but I don't think I noticed you have a guage and some sending unit(s) attached to the oil filter bypass. Just wondering what your reasoning is? It appears to me that only the pressure that would be avilable to the oil filter would register. At Low RPM, no pressure would register.. Am i wrong? Inquireing minds need to know LOL..
  • SuperDave wrote:
    Off topic, but I don't think I noticed you have a guage and some sending unit(s) attached to the oil filter bypass. Just wondering what your reasoning is? It appears to me that only the pressure that would be avilable to the oil filter would register. At Low RPM, no pressure would register.. Am i wrong? Inquireing minds need to know LOL..
    That set up reads the pressure going back to the oil pan when the check valve opens. Has to go to 35 lbs, check valve opens and the extra oil returns to the oil pan. Walt.
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