12 volt conversion
Ok, I have decided to switch my 54 wasp over to 12 volts. What I need to know is :
1. will the 6 volt coil work or do I need a 12 volt one?
2. there is a metal box of some kind attached to the back of my fuel and temp guages . The power goes through this box to my guages.....do I need to change this device whatever it is?
3. Am I correct in assuming that the temp sender is ok to use?
4. I am going to use a 2 wire alternator and I need to know how to wire the idiot light to it. I will probably get a volt guage as well.
5. Are there any other things I need to know when switching from positive ground to negative ground?
6. Will my fuel tank sender work on 12 volt negative ground?
I have already modified a spare generator bracket to take the alternator and am in the process of modifying a generator pulley to fit my alternator in order to continue to use the wide belt pulley. I have purchased all of the necessary light bulbs and sealed beams.
I plan on installing headlight relays.
7.Anything I'm forgetting?
Thanks for your help.
Jim
1. will the 6 volt coil work or do I need a 12 volt one?
2. there is a metal box of some kind attached to the back of my fuel and temp guages . The power goes through this box to my guages.....do I need to change this device whatever it is?
3. Am I correct in assuming that the temp sender is ok to use?
4. I am going to use a 2 wire alternator and I need to know how to wire the idiot light to it. I will probably get a volt guage as well.
5. Are there any other things I need to know when switching from positive ground to negative ground?
6. Will my fuel tank sender work on 12 volt negative ground?
I have already modified a spare generator bracket to take the alternator and am in the process of modifying a generator pulley to fit my alternator in order to continue to use the wide belt pulley. I have purchased all of the necessary light bulbs and sealed beams.
I plan on installing headlight relays.
7.Anything I'm forgetting?
Thanks for your help.
Jim
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Comments
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jim
i am converting my 53 to 12 volt and am using orginal generator and 12 volt regular. looks good so far charging well. do you have overdrive? i got a solenoid off a 62 for matches the 6 volt perfect. as for gas guage i replaced the sending unit with one i got at princess auto. using guage instead of idiot light. will also be installing relay in headlamps. you will need a twelve volt coil as well.
how are things in the west. i am located in new brunswick
steve0 -
All of the necessary information and interchange numbers for all parts are detailed out very well on my page by Park Waldrop and Dick Cashion. Information is on bottom of page at http://home.earthlink.net/~dsollon/public.htm/tips.htm0
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Jim,
In 1951, Hudson began using a gauge supplied by King-Seely for both fuel and temperature (part no. 225948). Its operation required a voltage regulator known as a "constant average voltage (CAV) regulator" to supply the gauges with an "average input of 5V." This device is a metal box about two inches long, an inch wide and 3/4 in. thick. It has positions on it for the connection of a wire from the ignition switch, and to supply current to the gauges. Look at the box on your gauge module, if it has a small, faintly stamped circle with the letters KS in it, that's what you have on your '54. (I'm not that familiar with the '54's, so keep that in mind.)
If it is a King-Seely unit, the Mechanical Procedure Manual states that: “input voltages in excess of 8.0 volts will not affect gauge indication accuracy, but will overload the regulator contacts and may result in premature wear.†Some feel it may affect reading accuracy as well.
Neither the CAV regulator nor the part no. 225948 gauge is affected by polarity. Your fuel and temperature "senders" are simply resistors in the gauge circuits, and are not affected by polarity. There are also steady state devices which will put out the 5V used with the above gauges, but they do generate some heat.
King-Seely units were used on a lot of Ford models, and are compatible with some the Ford fuel sending units.
Walt-LA0 -
Thanks gentlemen for your replies. It looks like I will need an internal ballast type coil?? and switch the wires around on the coil for negative ground.
I'm using a 2 wire gm alternator so not quite sure how to hook it up. I have read the threads here on it but am confused on it as some of the explanation use acronyms that seem to contradict each other.
If some one could explain the hook up for a 2 wire GM Alternator in " Terms for Dummies " I would be very grateful.
Other than that I think I can go ahead now with a degree of confidence in the project.0 -
My site also has the conversion instuctions, information about gauges and the parts and part numbers needed. Check it out at
http://members.aol.com/stepdown53/STEPDOWNRESTORATIONAIDS.html#ELECTRICAL_SYSTEMS0 -
Jim, everything you need for this conversion is in the doc I sent you. Info about the alternator as well.0
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Thanks Sean0
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FYI
You have all the Info you need in the above Links. Just to boost your confidence even though I have done a few 12V conversions I still referred to the Tech pages above hooking a GM Alternator with internal Regulator. They nicely detail the steps to eliminate the regulator. GM Alt are the simplist to Install with a Main Bat Wire and a 16Ga jumper from Bat term to #2 spade and your Amp light to #1 spade.
If this helps, Ford for many yrs utilized 6V gauges by using an Intermittent Voltage Regulator (IVR) avail from NAPA that I use on 12V Hudson when keeping original gauges.
Additionally I used a 12V Coil with a GM Resistor (NAPA) from a '60's Chevy V8 to reduce Dist current. I suggest going with an electronic Point conVersion too. Crane XR700 or Pertonix, etc.0 -
Jimalberta wrote:Ok, I have decided to switch my 54 wasp over to 12 volts. What I need to know is :
I have already modified a spare generator bracket to take the alternator and am in the process of modifying a generator pulley to fit my alternator in order to continue to use the wide belt pulley.
7.Anything I'm forgetting?
Thanks for your help.
Jim
Jim,
Actually, the stock Hudson pulley will fit on the alternator as is. You can always go one step further for a few bucks and buy a new pulley for your alternator, and leave your generator as is. You can get aluminum, chrome, or plain zinc plating;
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GmSearchResults.aspx?q=pulley&SearchTitleDescr=True
Good Luck0 -
Thanks everyone for all of your replies, I did find that the generator pulley went right on the alternator so that's taken care of . I looks like the alternator wiring is simple enough. Now I just need to figure out what you all mean by internal and external ballast resister coils and which one do I want?
One of these days I will switch to pertronix ignition as well.0 -
Perhaps this will help clarify......
I bought a '68 Chevy Coil (which is 12V) and the Chevy External Ballast Resistor to ensure the coil had no Internal resistor. Then I ran the 'hot' lead from Ign Switch into one side of resistor with the other side out to the + Coil Term. The Coil - Term goes to the Distributor. This Hudson motor has a Crane Electronic Point conversion Kit but directions are 'typical' ...............0 -
bumping this back up....today I put a 12 volt coil from a 56 Hudson on the car I ran a wire from my starter post to the + side of coil. I ran the original ignition wire from the switch thru a ballast resister and also put it on the + terminal of the coil. the - side of the coil is where I put the wire to the distributor. Hooked up a 12 volt battery and connected with - ground. Then I cranked the engine over and promptly released the smoke out of the ballast resister.......help!! What did I do wrong??
Is it possible that the coil I'm using has an internal ballasr resistor and would that matter?0 -
You do not run a wire from the starter post to dist. or coil. Only the wire from the ign switch goes to the coil. Yes it matters if the coil has an internal resistor., A coil with one does not use any other resistor. A coil without an internal resistor must have the wire from ign to the resistor and then from resistor to coil. Your parts house will know if the coil has or does not have a built in rersistor. It also matters if you are useing neg or pos ground , the coil connects opposite . Bud0
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thanks Bud.
Ok so does anyone know if an autolite coil from a 56 , 12 volt car has an internal ballast resister??
Which coil is better... external ballast resister type or internal?0 -
Better ? no diff ,just the way things are set up . Not familiar with the 56 Hudson set up if that's where you got it, and seeing as how you smoked the resistor you may have shot the coil as well, but you can give it a shot anyway. Send Hudsontech a msg, he'll know about the 56 coil as will a bunch of others, I just know he'll give you an answer . Did you get a pos or neg ground Alt ? and remember you have to put resistors on your gauges or you'll be replaceing somec more stuff !! Bud0
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If you don't have resistors for your gauges and want to start it you can give it the Midnight Auto Sales treatment. From pos on bat to a toggle switch --to resistor or coil which ever the case may be. Won't burn any gauges that way . Bud0
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my understanding was that I have a regulator on the back of my guages that keep it to a max of 8 volts to my guages. I keep getting different messages from people. Its getting frustrating.0
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Yeah I know but hang in there. You may well have regs on your gauges, some cars did, I don't know which but be patient, give HUDSON TECH a private msg. he's a gold mine of info and his info is correct, well researched. He will know if you have regs on your yr/model and whether or not the coil has a built in resistor. Get those things confirmed from him and you'll be on the way to solveing your problem . Bud0
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ok then, ......I guess that I'm so close to getting this car going I'm getting anxious to get her done if you know what I mean.0
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Certainly do,think we've all been there !! Fathers day Sun so things may get a little quite here, we're haveing kids/grandkids for the day but I'll be back in the eve . Get those 2 things settled and we'll get that thing hummin . Bud0
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Jimalberta wrote:my understanding was that I have a regulator on the back of my guages that keep it to a max of 8 volts to my guages. I keep getting different messages from people. Its getting frustrating.
Jim,
The instrument voltage regulator for '51 and later stepdowns was meant to take up to 8 V input in regular service. It will take more, and many are run on 12 V now, mine included- for the last two and a half years. That said, operating them at over 8 volts increasesthe likelyhood of the unit failing because the points in the unit are more prone to be burned. Ditto clock winders.
The instrument regulator devices put out what Hudson described as 5 V "constant average voltage," not 8 V. The operation of this device is described in the Hudson Mechanical Procedures Manual for 1951, and again in some of the Hudson Service Merchandisers in '51 and '53.
Walt-LA0 -
thanks Walt,
Today I went and bought a coil for an early chev and another ballast resister, finished changing the bulbs ( the ones under the dash were not fun ) changed my flasher and fired the car up. Everything worked and the car ran nice and idled nice. Even the amp light works and the alternator was putting out about 13 to 14 volts . I will leave the instruments as is and see how they turn out . I love how fast the engine turns over and fires up. The battery I'm using is 800 CCA so should be good in the car. I am ready now to take her for a test drive before I put the hood on.0 -
GOOD JOB JIM !! Sometimes the faster we go the slower we get there, Right ? A bit of patience, Always start at square one and follow things and it'll work out. Anything we want to know is ours for asking on this forum, great bunch. And thanks from me Walt,I'm soon gonna be getting after my 51 Pacemaker. Bud0
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thanks for the help and ecouragement Bud0
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