Paid Mechanic vs. DIY (somewhat long)

edhamlin
edhamlin Senior Contributor
edited November -1 in HUDSON
HETters,



I figured that after 6 months on this excellent forum, it's time I introduced myself. As a way of stimulating some discussion, I'd also like to bring up the topic of paid vs. DIY mechanics.



I came to antique cars from a long history of aviation maintenance: I am retired from NASA, having spent over 36 years in the aviation side of aerospace. As a hobby, I maintained and restored small airplanes. I'm a satisfactory mechanic, not an outstanding one, but adequate. I like to get grease under my nails, and stick my nose into every cranny to see what's going on. Comes from working on things that can't pull onto the shoulder if they have a problem. Minor health issues, overregulation, and expense have pushed me away from aviation.



I purchased my 1941 Traveler Six Sedan last October. It had been owned by a guy who collects old tractors, snowmobiles, and other small power equipment. He bought it about 5 years ago and brought it up to driving condition. Prior to that, it had sat in a barn for 20 years. For maintenance, he used the same mechanic that he pays to maintain the equipment in his excavating business. When I bought the Six, he strongly recommended that I retain this guy for all my maintenance, because he was reasonable, did good work, and knew the car well.



After having called the mechanic, and not getting a return call (he was quite busy with his main trade, tractors), I decided to attack these problems myself. I set my priorities as follows: no. 1, safety; no. 2, function; no. 3, appearance. (I haven't got to "appearance" yet).



As I started working on the Six, I found things that (I felt) should have been taken care of in the normal course of getting the car back on the road:



* the distributor was frozen, and the timing was way off

* the exhaust pipe was nearly rusted through

* the plugs were fouled and the gaps too small

* the plug wires were frayed

* the shocks were completely empty of fluid

* the carb was leaky and the choke wasn't working

* the thermostat was stuck closed

* the radiator hoses leaked

* the brake fluid was quite low

* the wipers didn't work

* the headlights were intermittent

* the lube points hadn't been taken care of



and .. well, you get the picture. The car was barely driveable. It would overheat after 10 minutes; it had no power to pull even small hills; the fuel tank was full of rust, and had been removed and replaced by a stainless steel beer keg in the trunk. In the guy's defense, there were many things that had been fixed competently, including replacing the muffler and tailpipe, rebuilding the clutch, lining the brakes, and so on. I think the owner just got tired of putting money into the car.



Some things I figured out, and many I solved after getting advice and wisdom from this excellent forum. Eventually I decided that I was better off doing most of these items myself, since I had the time, there was no urgency to get the car running, and I wanted to learn about the whole car anyway (and I LOVE working on it!)



All this is a long-winded way of stating something that's probably obvious to most of you: for me, it was far better to do all the things myself that I was competent to do, than it was to pay someone else and assume they will do them to the same degree. Some of these things take so long that no one this side of Jay Leno would pay shop rates to have them done.



I'm wondering what other people's experiences have been along the same lines?

Comments

  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Well as an aircraft mechanic I can't imagine you find a lot of the mechanicals on a Hudson all that difficult. It's really just a matter of getting familiar with them and understanding why Hudson engineers did what they did and what they were thinking when they designed it. For my own part I try to do as much myself as possible but some things in a Hudson are somewhat specialized such as the fluid cushion clutch, although if I broke out the books and figured it out myself I could do it, I'd prefer to leave that particular item to the pro's in the HET club if I ever had to get a new one.

    Also I don't have all of the tools I could possibly need for an engine overhaul or work that requires feeler guages and a machine shop. That kind of stuff I would also farm out to the HET pros who I trust would do it once and do it right. Sure it's more expensive....but then for me to buy all the tools and such and for as often as I'll overhaul an engine (at least at this point) I have no trouble farming it out. But I wouldn't let mechanics not familiar with Hudson's mess with it.

    Working on my '47 I've gotten to know the car inside out and upside down and I enjoy working on it and being inventive when the job calls for it. A lot more pride to do things yourself where you can. These cars a more "user friendly" for those who do their own work than anything modern is.
  • Ed



    Thanks for the intro. The points you make are spot on.



    I have been a Hudson owner for over 40 years. During this time my experience has been General Hudson maintenance is something I must plan for and accomplish. Very little on my Hudsons has been farmed out. One area of the Hudson maintenance where I am incompetent is wheel alignment. So alignment tasks go to my friend who has the tools and patience to accomplish. Hydromantic and Borg Warner automatic transmissions are another pain in the posterior for me. On the odd occasion I have owned a Hudson with one of these and it needed tinkering or more it was shuttled to the local expert. As I have aged there have been tasks I would rather not do as they require contorted body movements which are now hard for me to accomplish. Those tasks wait till I can borrow lift time or get the car over a pit. All in all engine overhauls and rebuilds have been done with ease. The truth of the matter for this task is using the right machinist and making sure your instructions are understood. All the Hudson engines I have rebuilt or overhauled have fired up on first try. Parts availability is easier now than in the 70s. With the advent of the INTERNET and places like this there is near instantaneous information flow. Some folks have built businesses on making Hudson parts available.



    After all of this, I am in the DIY column. As Aaron states, not much about a Hudson is rocket science.



    BTW being nosy what NASA location where you working? I have been in MRO and Aerospace all my adult life.

    Cheers and Greetings.
  • coverton
    coverton Expert Adviser
    Mr Hamblin, My biggest problem has come from those who charge for lack of knowledge vs what I can figure out myself.

    Some time ago i decided to "refresh" what small amt of knowledge i did have by enrolling in the ASEP [GM] program, the Auto Body and Paint program and the Mechanical-all at the State of NC's expense.I am referring to the Community College.Being 62 its free and I was amaised at what I had forgotten and at what poor work was being performed at the local "Billy Bob" shops.

    Paint literally fell off my 51-laquer primer on bare metal- and no one knows much about a carbureator or simple set of point anymore. Dollar driven sorry work is greatly to blame-But I work very cheap so do my own.

    carroll O
  • Richie
    Richie Senior Contributor
    I do all my own work that I'm capable of. I worked as a mechanic out of high school for 5 years, and got the basics. Mostly worked of Fords and Mopars. My first experience with a Hudson was about two years ago. It arrived at my house and wouldn't move after being rolled of the car hauler (clutch was shot). From that point on I learned a great many things from people on this forum. I tackled the clutch problem first and Dr. Doug talked me through the whole procedure and it came out fine. I have gotten advice many times from the forum members here. I couldn't have done all that I did without their advice. I'm retired and enjoy working on Hudsons, that is the only brand car I will buy from now on. I guess this would be a good time to thank everyone on the forum for their support and help over the last year and a half. Thanks guys. Richie.
  • Ol racer
    Ol racer Senior Contributor
    I think you would have the skill & ability to do all your own maintenance with your aircraft background....



    Keep in mind that car was built back when everyone did all their own maintenance at home except (maybe) major rebuild....



    I suggest watching for an Owners Manual on Ebay to use as a guide. Hudson Owners Manuals described maintaining the whole car.....
  • Uncle Josh
    Uncle Josh Senior Contributor
    "You never know what you can do 'till you try." Jim Cook
  • edhamlin
    edhamlin Senior Contributor
    WildWasp wrote:

    BTW being nosy what NASA location where you working? I have been in MRO and Aerospace all my adult life.

    Cheers and Greetings.



    I spent my whole career at Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA. in various jobs, the last being Associate Director of Flight Operations. It was a blast! On that last job, I was responsible for the Airborne Science aircraft (2 U-2's modified for high altitude science missions, and a DC-8 flying laboratory), plus a support aircraft fleet of 5 F/A-18, a T-34C, and 2 King Airs. I was privileged to work with some great people, among them test pilots, astronauts, and some fine engineers. But the people I learned the most from were the techs and mechs, some of the best in the business. My own vocation as an aircraft mechanic/inspector was strictly for education and fun - I never pulled a wrench at work, but I found that the folks working on the hangar floor respected me a lot more for earning my spurs as a licensed mechanic.



    As for maintaining certain systems, I have not even tried to do my own major systems overhauls - through this forum and via the internet I've found some outstanding services for things such as fuel tanks, carbs, clutches, and so forth. As one poster said, I just don't have the equipment, parts, and knowledge to do them.
  • rambos_ride
    rambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Theres only a few reasons I pay to have someone do my mechanic work - I do my own bodywork and painting

    1. I don't have the expertise and/or tools to accomplish the job
    ex. Transmissions, Differentials, Interior Upholstery (sewing)

    2. I want a warranty on the work and parts
    ex. 700.00 for a water pump replacement on my 98 Crew Cab TD :eek:
    I could have done the replacement myself - but this price came with a
    lifetime warranty on parts and labor, and I don't plan on ever selling
    this truck!

    3. Sometimes, I am just lazy and don't feel like getting all greasy and
    having crud fall in your eyes! :p
  • edhamlin
    edhamlin Senior Contributor
    Richie wrote:
    I do all my own work that I'm capable of.



    One thing I learned in aircraft - never try to do something you don't know how to do. Actually, the regs say that. Much of aircraft maintenance is taught like an "oral tradition" - so you're supposed to find a mentor to oversee you when you are attempting something new. For example, I would NEVER ride in any vehicle that I welded structure on - I'm not a very good welder. So when I need welding, I find someone who knows how to weld.
  • MikeWA
    MikeWA Senior Contributor
    Boy, I dunno- 700 bucks will buy a lot of water pumps, and I'm getting to that awkward age where "lifetime warranty" doesn't mean near as much as it used to. . .
  • faustmb
    faustmb Senior Contributor
    I can't afford not to be a DIY'er. When I do somethings, it probably takes me at least twice as long as a "professional". There are plenty of qualified professionals out there, but finding them is tough, and trial and error is frustrating and expensive. That being said, half the people who claim to be pros know little more than me, and care a lot less. When I do things for myself, I can take the time to reasearch the task and do it to the best of my ability. I have to live with it, so it's going to be good (and safe).



    I bought a log home late last year. I had to use an experienced pro to replace some rotten logs, but have learned to do almost everything else myself. The money I save allows me to buy the quality tools to do a good job plus gain the knowledge to keep up on the maintenance.



    Good post Ed & good luck.



    Matt
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    Plus , cars are more forgiving than planes in that if you do something wrong you won't fall out of the sky. LOL
  • I think there are a lot of us Hudson owners and other brands who buy their cars because they want to work on them. I grew up in a garage then went away to University and became a High Tech Moron. Now I need the decompression of going out into the garage and working away on my cars. Right now I have a 54 Hornet sedan in 1000 pieces. All the fun for me is putting it back together. It reduces my stress level and keeps me from totally loosing it when some 17 year old in a tuner POS cuts me off.



    I just can't tell you how much I love working on my Hudson's but I don't have to because you all know what its like.
  • Sarah Young
    Sarah Young Senior Contributor
    Welcome from another aviation enthusiast! I'm licensed as a private pilot, airplane single engine land. I've got most my hours in a Beechcraft Skipper, which is similar to a Piper Tomahawk.



    I like to divide and conquer. Most things you learn as you go, mostly out of necessity with these old cars. I'm learning that getting your hands dirty fuels the passion.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Aaron D. IL Senior Contributor
    There's a few Aviation heads among us Hudsonites Ken Cates and myself too. I grew up flying around the mid-west with my dad in Cessna 152's 172's and Piper Warriors. Went to Oshkosh Air Show almost every summer until I was about 15 and my dad lost hist flying buddy who went down to Florida to flight school and then got a job as a pilot full time. We're both into planes, boats, and cars, and will all three not being cheap hobbies... we kinda had to choose. Maybe I'll go for my recreational rating in the future. Until then "Terraplaning" will have to do.
  • edhamlin
    edhamlin Senior Contributor
    Sarah Young wrote:
    Welcome from another aviation enthusiast! I'm licensed as a private pilot, airplane single engine land. I've got most my hours in a Beechcraft Skipper, which is similar to a Piper Tomahawk.



    I like to divide and conquer. Most things you learn as you go, mostly out of necessity with these old cars. I'm learning that getting your hands dirty fuels the passion.



    I love airplanes, and for years had various models: my favorite being a 1946 Aeronca Chief that I flew from Connecticut to California in 1984. Also had a '64 Skyhawk (two trips to Oshkosh in the 90's), an Ercoupe (in pieces), a Tripacer, and a '67 Bellanca Viking (wouldn't want to feed THAT at over $5 a gallon - but what a sports car!). Unfortunately I developed type II diabetes and had to get a special issuance medical. After a while that became quite expensive - my health was fine, the disease was controlled by oral meds, but the tests the FAA mandated weren't covered by my medical insurance and were running over $1000 a year. I wasn't flying enough to justify that. This last spring I just let it lapse. I might try the light sport route, but right now I'm having too much fun with my old car...
  • edhamlin
    edhamlin Senior Contributor
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Well as an aircraft mechanic I can't imagine you find a lot of the mechanicals on a Hudson all that difficult.



    About the only thing simpler than a Hudson splasher or model A engine is a "modern", normally aspirated air cooled 4 banger airplane engine with a fixed pitch prop. The complexity with light aircraft is mostly in the regs and paperwork, not in the actual mechanicals. I still do a few annual inspections but only on the simplest light aircraft owned and maintained by people I trust. Too many ways to get into trouble otherwise.
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